The musings of the new guy

[TheJoker]

Hey guys,

So some of you may have noticed my forum signature says something about a TL;DR-mancer. This is pretty much why. I like to write. And think. And talk. And write some more. And brainstorm. So as you may have noticed I tried to mingle as much as I realistically could, particularly on skype (while still understanding that many topics simply aren't available to me due to a lack of experience or insight.)

However, sometimes a fresh perspective can be a good thing. Overall, I'm liking NA. The combat system has it's gripes. But mostly it seems pretty great. I'm a stickler for game-theory, balance and standardization/conformity. However, I also appreciate the freedom you have in making your own skills and abilities. And while some things like porting over existing abilities from other animes and changing the name take a bit of getting used to. I think I prefer it over a more ridged approach where everything has to be custom made. Even if I still feel that kits themselves (as in what they do. Combat wise) could do with some much clearer guidelines on what they can do. Rather than just eye-balling it.

But I digress. As the combat system is something I feel I'm not experienced enough with to really talk about. So I'm sure it will be a topic for a much later date. I feel I should also reiterate. There's WAY MORE things about NA that I really like. Than things I don't like. And while you'll hear me riveting about stuff I love in private chats. I feel a constructive forum post like this is better to communicate the things I feel could do with improvements. So please don't take me pointing out the things I experienced as less than they could be as a totally negative outlook. They're simply only part of the outlook that I chose to express on the forum.

The grind

nobody likes doing solo missions. But some people value the experience over a fun experience. How does this hurt me? These people - will not - rp with me unless it's hyper efficient. So I've effectively lost a RP partner I might have written a very enjoyable arc with. And suddenly the limited amount of players you already have is halved as potential roleplay partners.

If you do missions, it doesn't mean your character doesn't unwind after.

If you unwind, it doesn't mean your character didn't train before.

If you train, it doesn't mean your character does no missions.

If our hypothetical only has 10k words to write each week time-wise. Wouldn't it be true to the philosophy of 'everyone should RP how and what they want.' If choosing to do any of those 3 things with your 10k words should net you the same amount of exp? So you grow at a relative same speed as anybody else putting in as much effort into their character?

You will not see dailies dissappear. Instead you'll see people covering all aspects of a ninja's life according to what they want to show. Missions, training, sparring, slice of life. Which the use to earn what you can currently earn doing dailies and training threads.

GM arcs still exist. And function the exact same way.

I think this will bring everyone together. Hurting no one. And it presents a far more vibrant world. Simultaniously helping with the already known issues of training being underwhelming (quoting Megan) and sparring not occuring (why would you if you don't/barely earn experience doing it.)

I like to think of the GM arcs are overaching plots and the daily missions as in-village RP. And Tony correctly pointed out. There are people who display far more varied RP. However that's not everyone with an already limited population. I'm not arguing to help myself here entirely. The only way this will help me is it'll expand the amount of people I can RP with. And what I can do with these people.

Edited January 28, 2016 by TheJoker

[TheJoker]

It's good to be bad

 

So as a continuation of my rantings. I wanted to touch on another subject. And that touches on both RP and an OOC topic. I firmly believe that any story needs a great villain to be successful. RP is a collection of stories within a certain verse in this case. So it stands to reason we need a few good villains. But here's the thing. Being bad isn't good! (What I mean by that is that there's barely a system in place to support being bad.) There's no missions. You can't GM your own things or earn votes. So you're kind of stuck coasting doing good guy things to get stronger. Or waiting for the inevitable good guys to catch up and kill you. (Which they will. Because there's no system that will obscure you.)

 

Now this is where obviously GM's come into play. And I feel they're doing an okay job at it. Certainly. I am missing an overarching NPC storyline so to speak people can draw from. But perhaps that's coming with time.

 

Back when I played we had a place called Fuuma Alley. Which was a small city reminiscent of Amegakure also in the land of rain. And it acted like a sort of Tortuga for missing nin. A place with rampant gangs. Gambling. Prostitution. The dirty of the earth gathered there to do what bad guys do. Constantly entangled in violent gang-wars even Amegakure couldn't get a grip on. And it was great. Because it gave Missing nin (and rogue nin/villains alike) a safe place to rp in and grow. It worked in Tandem with an obscurity system. Which you could use to make sure hunter Nin couldn't find you. (As you're stronger/more successful. You are easier for people who might want you dead to find.) Giving villains a chance. We had some great villains, PC's and NPC's because of this system. And it really fueled a lot of RP.

 

This also brings me to a small OOC topic. I don't feel this one is as pressing. I understand the no smut rule on the forum. That's stuff for in private. Completely agreed. However, I've also heard some other adult subjects were slightly restricted to PG13. Prostitution (the act of anyways), gore, violence to a degree. Drugs. Sexism, racism (IC, mind you.) Totalitarianism in it's real and true form. And that feels a bit on the restrictive side. I mean, if you look at the skype conversation. It's regularly not close to PG13. And if we're all real here. Anyone who can understand and function in NA has to be at least old enough to understand these subjects. To the point that exposure to them is a good thing (understanding the bad. Will help you do the good I truly believe.) There's a lot to be learned in studying totalitarianism. And that's why I was a bit disappointed to hear Kumo was so mild during the wars and their 'totalitarian' period. And how villages behave and interact currently.

 

It's all done with such... Moderation? Or am I completely wrong here...

 

Scared of combat

I'll write this when my muse returns. But it's something else I've noticed.

[Cellar Door]

Doing Missions & The Dailies:

You're looking at the daily missions in the wrong light. Because of the Exams that are going on, and leading up to them, many people were using the daily mission board as a way to gain fast experience to prepare for them. This mission board is in no way meant to make up the bulk of your experience. In fact on Ninja Academy, GM arcs and story-lines tend comprise the brunt of each shinobi's career.

Furthermore, there's no rule that states that the dailies need to be done alone. Two of my three characters cannot do missions by themselves at all, and only receive 50% experience when training alone. One of those two is in the top 5% of genin/chunin strength-wise. So the idea that you fall behind if you don't play how you enjoy playing is an incorrect assumption.

Beyond that, you seem to have gotten some of your information wrong. Staff routinely reward experience for all manners of arcs, but unless they're training or a mission they need to be overseen by a game master. My advice on the grinding aspect of the game, if you're very concerned, is to not treat them as missions in an MMO, but instead to just write the story of your character. Grab a friend, and do some slice of life RP. Not all ninja are always ninja-ing.

[Azure]

Doing Missions & The Dailies:

For the record, there was a time where Konoha and Kiri did not have mission boards.  I thought that if I handed out tailored missions, everything would be better.  Interestingly enough, there was player demand for mission boards.  While sure, we always to promote player interactions I myself know that I and others) have written solo stories for fun of very important merit to my PCs.  To be honest, the biggest hamper on this is time.  Inactivity sometimes will sometimes grind a story to a halt--for reasons no one on the internet can prevent.

 

And this brings me to my next point. No one is the same here at NA.  Some people are better writers than others, some people are better at math and game systems.  As a staff, we try to help all members improve, but the last thing I want to see on NA is an elitist mindset and popularity contest.  That is one of my personal tenants as an administrator.

 

The Big Baddie:

A few years ago, we ran the biggest world event the site had seen and it lasted for several years.  The Raikage was the big baddie, and if you haven't checked it out see the Hall of Fame for some of our best work as a community.  Context is always key, so use the wiki for background! At an rate, near the end everyone was tired of the singular baddie so right now we are in the stage of working through a grayer world after the fact.  In the little stories there are baddies and there are many avenues behind the scenes for world plots (yokai, what happened to kusa, jashinists, etc).  Maybe you just need to poke in the right places to find the big baddie .

 

Scared of Combat:

This is something staff is working very hard at right now.  Any input from all members are welcome but if the staff is at a whole unresponsive at this notion, it's because we're literally driving ourselves sick over addressing this.  We can see that the Chuunin Exams get dampened by having your builds be destroyed, whereas it should be the showcase of sustainable builds.

 

In Short:

I hope these responses here do not come off as deterring for you.  I personally welcome all ideas for improvement on the site.  This is a place that we care about very deeply, so if any of us come off as negligent to your concerns it's likely because we're on a certain project right now and will take it into consideration as we go.  

[Rei]

Mature content

 

PG-13 is a suggestive guideline. NA is a safe space and we encourage everyone to feel comfortable engaging with and reading every role-playing thread. You’re free to include mature content as long as you’ve got everyone’s consent, contacted staff and you’ve made clear and active warnings that your thread contains  mature content. While I believe we’re all mature enough to handle any subject material, some subject such as rape, ultra violence and racism carry trigger warnings. It’s good business to let people know what they’re walking into so they can make a sound decision on whether it’s for them.

 

Skype is a “grey area.” We consider it “offsite,” and let NA’s policies slide, but there are limits. . Racism, sexism, homopbia and rape jokes are not tolerated. If your banter makes anyone feel uncomfortable, you’ll be asked to stop or kicked out.

 

Racism is another grey area and really doesn’t exist here. Speaking as a black-Latino, I can tell you racism is social/cultural construct.   The circumstances that gave rise to racism in the modern world (Read: Western civilization) simply didn’t occur here.  Rather, nationalism and tribalism (Clans/bloodlines) supersede race as identity markers. If you called a dark-skinned ninja the N-word,  the insult would go over his head. But calling him a village slurr, might wind him up.  That said, the N-word is banned from the forum (try inputting it) as there’s really no reason where using it is appreciate.

 

Eh. I’ll be frank. No one was interested in exploring “real” totalitarianism then and no one is now. I’m sure you can learn a lot by studying it, but real totalitarianism isn’t a part of the stories that our staff/GMs want to tell.

 

 

It's good to be bad

 

That just sounds like canon Oto. I imagine NA’s Oto  has some of these traditions and given its limited manpower, it wouldn’t be difficult for a Missing-Nin to offer their services to the Kage or his future successor Raz.

 

We’ve discussed this in chat. The private contractor skill lets you create unofficial missions. It’s an easy way to make money and experience writing side stories, while providing a feasible, inexpensive e solution for someone who wants to play “off the grid.”  There are workarounds in place for unconventional character designs. They require more effort on the player’s part, but we rarely need a complete overhaul or sweeping changes to accommodate people who want something different.

 

 

 

[Cellar Door]

Mature content

 

Skype is a “grey area.” We consider it “offsite,” and let NA’s policies slide, but there are limits. . Racism, sexism, homopbia and rape jokes are not tolerated. If your banter makes anyone feel uncomfortable, you’ll be asked to stop or kicked out.

That's entirely untrue. All of NA's rules on the main site apply to the Skype.

[Rei]

That's entirely untrue. All of NA's rules on the main site apply to the Skype.

 

I'll talk you word for that.  I was once told it was considered offsite and that's why it was so laxed. But you're here more than I am, so I'll trust you judgement.

[TheJoker]

Doing Missions & The Dailies:

For the record, there was a time where Konoha and Kiri did not have mission boards.  I thought that if I handed out tailored missions, everything would be better.  Interestingly enough, there was player demand for mission boards.  While sure, we always to promote player interactions I myself know that I and others) have written solo stories for fun of very important merit to my PCs.  To be honest, the biggest hamper on this is time.  Inactivity sometimes will sometimes grind a story to a halt--for reasons no one on the internet can prevent.

 

And this brings me to my next point. No one is the same here at NA.  Some people are better writers than others, some people are better at math and game systems.  As a staff, we try to help all members improve, but the last thing I want to see on NA is an elitist mindset and popularity contest.  That is one of my personal tenants as an administrator.

 

The Big Baddie:

A few years ago, we ran the biggest world event the site had seen and it lasted for several years.  The Raikage was the big baddie, and if you haven't checked it out see the Hall of Fame for some of our best work as a community.  Context is always key, so use the wiki for background! At an rate, near the end everyone was tired of the singular baddie so right now we are in the stage of working through a grayer world after the fact.  In the little stories there are baddies and there are many avenues behind the scenes for world plots (yokai, what happened to kusa, jashinists, etc).  Maybe you just need to poke in the right places to find the big baddie .

 

Scared of Combat:

This is something staff is working very hard at right now.  Any input from all members are welcome but if the staff is at a whole unresponsive at this notion, it's because we're literally driving ourselves sick over addressing this.  We can see that the Chuunin Exams get dampened by having your builds be destroyed, whereas it should be the showcase of sustainable builds.

 

In Short:

I hope these responses here do not come off as deterring for you.  I personally welcome all ideas for improvement on the site.  This is a place that we care about very deeply, so if any of us come off as negligent to your concerns it's likely because we're on a certain project right now and will take it into consideration as we go.

 

None of the responses come off as deterring at all. In fact I'm really liking the way there's just honest open communication and debate so far. Considering the way you worded your reply however I feel I should clarify some things to sketch the situation better. I understand your points on combat and baddies. And am glad my hunch that it was simply the event that had the world a bit in a lull was right.

 

The grind 2 - Forget votes, let's call it the 3/10th rule.

 

Q: Why do you feel you should be entitled to experience for social scenes:

 

A: Because those 10,000 words written during the social scene inherently include the rest of my character's day. Where he might have done a mission or done some training. It's not like if I show the interesting bar social that my character has been standing still all day. Just like if you do a mission that your character doesn't go backstage and turn into a puppet the rest of his day. 

 

The flexibility in earning means I can rp with a lot of other people. And do all kinds of interesting rp and arcs. And players who have limited time, and enjoy leveling won't be deterred from joining either. As it's the norm for earning experience.

 

It also extends into self gm'd missions and solves the 'training is underwhelming' issue outright. And helps with combat and spars being so uncommon! Training falls under the same system. X amount of words = 3/10th of daily mission exp. Which you can earn 10 times per week. (3x your daily mission exp is the current cap. So the cap of exp you can earn doesn't change.)

 

(Later down the line I'd like to see the private contractor skill be a universal right for everyone that can be taken away if abused. Where people gm missions for each-other just written from their creativity rather than relying on an often uninspired mission board.)

 

You can then replace the daily missions with a weekly 'submission' you do of your favorite arc. Often ran by a GM or a player who knows what he's doing. Mods check and approve those instead. And those get rated according to an algorythm only mods know. And thus have scaling rewards equal to effort. (So an amazing self gm-ed lenghty mission might earn more than an uninspired training session.)

 

Then dedicate GM's, who should have much more time to playing team leaders and villains to fill the gaps where there aren't enough pc's to fill those essential social roles.

 

Combat and sparring also falls under the same 3/10th rule. For every x amount of words. You earn 3/10th of your daily mission exp.

 

This is just an example of how I'd do it. Again treat this more as a suggestion than a complaint. I really like it here. I just like offering my perspective. Now to get back to the votes. What I meant by that is that people peer-review. Basically, you're expected to vote at the end of an arc for everyone. The only reason you wouldn't is if someone has been abusing the system (copy pasting or spamming just one word.) All staff then has to do is look out for groups who might try to abuse the system. And since it's all logged that's not too difficult. Sporadically checking word-counts and post contents and such.

[Rei]

 

(Later down the line I'd like to see the private contractor skill be a universal right for everyone that can be taken away if abused. Where people gm missions for each-other just written from their creativity rather than relying on an often uninspired mission board.)

 

 

As the skills curator, I'd rather keep it as is.  I'm o f the mind that NA needs fewer rules, systems and mechanics. If there's more demand for the skill, I'll push to adding  it on the main site. If the staff believe its a good idea to make it universal, then we can discuss adding it. 

 

 

 

" You can then replace the daily missions with a weekly 'submission' you do of your favorite arc. Often ran by a GM or a player who knows what he's doing. Mods check and approve those instead. And those get rated according to an algorythm only mods know. And thus have scaling rewards equal to effort. (So an amazing self gm-ed lenghty mission might earn more than an uninspired training session.)"

 

 

Sounds fine on paper. However, thread drag (busy professionals, parents and students) especially as the party size increases.  It's actually much easier to complete a few missions than an arc.

 

Rating systems are nightmare and nigh impossible to create something everyone can agree on.  Even then you're just going to see hair spitting over and  hair splitting over a 0.5 difference.  Although word account factors quantity over quality,  GMs are encouraged to offer rewards (i.e. EXP bonuses or items) for good role-playing and enjoyable experiences. It's a more reasonable system than some arbitrary ranks and much easier to manage. 

 

 

[TheJoker]

After revision with some people in the chat. I've edited the first post to be more in line with my current thoughts.

Edited January 28, 2016 by TheJoker

[Rei]

 

 Wouldn't it be true to the philosophy of 'everyone should RP how and what they want.' If choosing to do any of those 3 things with your 10k words should net you the same amount of exp?

 

 

 

Slight problem. if everything provides the same experience, missions become the clear favorite as the provide experience and money. It's more likely that we'll see less training and slice of life as people rush to get the most bang for their buck.

 

We also can't ignore the risk factor that high ranking missions and GM arcs present. In these circumstances, often  submit control to authority, leaving their characters vulnerable to death, impotent or crippling injury. If there's a possibility that my character could die from chasing pirates or toppling local warlord, there rewards should be greater than if she kicked back in a malt shop with da homies. Otherwise, why bother taking risks at all? Same prize money running a bakery. 

 

 

[TheJoker]

Ah, you totally misunderstood me there. GM arcs remain the same. Only daily exp + training gets replaced by equal distribution over those 4 things I mentioned (missions/socials/training/sparring.)

And I kind of assumed 'experience' inherently included both money and experience. That can be solved by purely offering experience for these missions (which can be converted) or offering a flat rate of money on top of the experience. Or alternatively Taking it away entirely and only adding it to GM arcs.