Ring Design

[Celes]

Ring Design

There are a small number of weapons that are either circular in nature or possess a ring-like feature that allow these weapons to be used in a versatile manner, such as chakrams, wind and fire wheels or even certain shurikens, which are capable of being used in close ranged combat or thrown from distances. If the situation calls for it, these weapons may be 'shelved' by putting one's hand through the circle or ring of the weapon and keeping it secured along one's wrist or forearm. In this manner, it frees the hand and can still be used for melee combat, but often times, sacrifices any possibility for use in ranged combat.

Type: Attribute | Weapon

Effect: When this weapon is equipped, the user must choose 'free-handed' or 'in-hand'. While this weapon is 'free-handed' it does not take up the user's hand and may not be used in any attacks. While this weapon is 'in-hand' it may be used normally but its level is treated as halved, rounded down, when performing Basic Weapon Attacks. Once per turn during the Setup Phase as a free action the user may choose to swap between 'free-handed' and 'in-hand'.

Requirements: 5 Post Training

Restrictions: May only be used for Medium Weapons. May not be used illogically.

Cost: 両300

 

Quote

Basically an in-between of the Free Handed and Retraction Spring attributes. It's much closer to the latter as far as effect goes, so I figure price would be closer than the mean of the two. I originally made this a Special Ability for my character's main weapon but realistically, it's fairly basic and something that could appear on similar weapons as niche as they are.

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Celes

[Cellar Door]

@cntrstrk14

This is all your department, but this looks like a more easy to apply version of Free Handed, so you might want eyes on it.

[cntrstrk14]

So this is basically Free Handed but changed a bit because you want to be able to use it on something where Free Handed cannot logically be applied, correct?

 

If I am not misunderstanding this it's a functionally equivalent of Free Handed with added functionality to allow you to use this in a way specific for thrown weapons. It should cost a minimum of $250 (same as Free Handed) and probably get a bump above that for the added flexibility. 

 

That said, I think you want to use this ONLY on weapons with "thrown"? Maybe you should explain exactly what you want to do with this and then we can optimize it from there.

[Celes]

It's not really meant to be specifically for thrown weapons. I mean, any weapon can technically be thrown even if it wasn't inherently designed to be, but this does fit weapons with that sort of dual function of melee or ranged use. I personally wanted to apply this to shuriken-based weaponry which typically have holes/rings in the center through which the wielder places their hand. If I remember correctly, a canon example was Zabuza placing his hand through the ring of a fuma shuriken and using it in a melee fashion. Other weapons are like chakrams or wind-and-fire wheels that are circular and can similar have one's hand fit into. The primary reason for the Thrown Weapons bit is that you can't exactly throw something that's mounted onto your arm however you please unless you wield it in your hands. Just a logical issue more than anything but not a necessity (especially since I don't imagine most would take Thrown Weapons anyway).

[cntrstrk14]

Okay, I am getting an idea of what you want now. For reference I am going to just add the main site ones here. Also, I am realizing that Retraction Spring should actually probably be a Setup Phase free action which I am going to add to an update. A free action in any phase is very powerful and not really in scope for a $150 attribute. 

 

Spoiler

Free Handed
Many weapons are built to not be held in the hand of the user. Gauntlets or gloves with blades are just a few examples of weapons that are crafted to allow a user full use of their hands while equipped. Of course, the craftsmanship is much more difficult on weapons that use this, as they must be supported to the body by some means so that the weapon attacks do not fail.
This weapon does not take up the user's hand when drawn.
Restrictions: May only be added to Medium Weapons. May not be used illogically.
Cost: $250

 

Retraction Spring
This is a small mechanical spring technology that allows for the easy drawing and retracting of bladed weapons. The most common example is a blade hidden within a sleeve that upon extension will allow the user to attack quickly. Though the mechanism can be extended and retracted easily, it can be triggered with a touch of chakra for the most urgent of situations.
User may extend or retract this weapon as a free action that replaces drawing. Extending the weapon costs 5 Chakra to do, retracting is free. May only extend or retract each blade once per turn.
Restrictions: May only be added to Medium Weapons. May not be used illogically.
Cost: $150

 

So what I am imagining here is that this is a weapon you equip normally but has two modes. Basically a mode where it's in hand and available for normal use and another mode where you have it looped around your arm and free your hands. Assuming this is true, here is what I would do...

 

 

Type: Attribute | Weapon

Effect: When this weapon is equipped, the user must choose 'free-handed' or 'in-hand'. While this weapon is 'free-handed' it does not take up the user's hand and may not be used in any attacks. While this weapon is 'in-hand' it may be used normally. Once per turn during the Setup Phase as a free action the user may choose to swap between 'free-handed' and 'in-hand'.

Restrictions: May only be used for Medium Weapons. May not be used illogically.

Cost: 両225

 

 

This will allow you to equip it, but then have access to your hands without putting it down again. I believe this is the type of effect you were going for. It's technically not as good as Free Handed it can be placed on more weapons logically like you pointed out, basically anything with a loop or something that you can make sense of. I think with this effect 両225 makes sense because its just slightly worse than Free Handed but otherwise very similar. I didn't add in the 5 Chakra like Retraction Spring because that is a token flavor effect for "triggering" the device that spring loads the blade out without having to physically flip a switch, it's not actually important to the balance.

 

I would also consider a different name for this as "flexible design" leaves a lot to the imagination. Maybe something like "Ring Design" or something.

[Celes]

Yep, perfect, Thank you and adjusted. And certainly, names definitely aren't my thing. Going with that suggestion.

 

Edit: Actually, just noticed the 'no attacks clause'. The intent was to still use it in melee combat, specifically for certain weapon jutsu. Limited it to just 'ranged weapon attacks and techniques' and bumped cost up to 250 if needed.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Celes

[cntrstrk14]

Your current wording only allows you to use it for Melee Weapon Attacks (not weapon jutsu) is that the intent? Also, this seems an awful lot like Free Handed if you can still use the weapon in limited capacity while it is free-handed mode. I get the feeling that you might just want to argue to use free handed for this?

[Celes]

Ah, if that makes it too close to Free Handed, I'll just work with the original wording then. Adjusted.

[cntrstrk14]

Approved

[PandaMattMatt]

APPROVED

[Princess]

Cntr and Panda have both stamped this, I have looked over it and it looks reasonable enough to me. 

Approved.

[Cloudnine]

After some discussion in GM discord, Ring Design will need revisiting after changes to Free-Handed in the recent 9.0.3 update. 

[Celes]

Changed this around to stand out a bit from Free Handed and Retraction Spring. So I've opted to make it so while the weapon can be used normally when equipped 'in-hand', it halves the weapon's base damage when using it for attacks. A major advantage of using weapons in the first place is the amount of damage they can dish out (along with cost of weapon attacks). With a maxed out level 100 medium weapon being 両3000, I'm hoping that could effectively provide some reduction to the cost of what this ability would be since you're practically overpaying for a weapon just to have a free hand effect. Additionally, to set it even further apart from the other two, I've tacked on a training requirement since fighting with a weapon in such a manner isn't so straightforward as Free Handed and Retraction Spring are.

 

For the reason I came to 両300 as the cost, I looked to the new version of Free Handed which is 両250 and -1 SP. Using CXP, -1 SP is basically 1200 EXP. Converting EXP to money occurs on a 3:2 ratio, so that's 800 for a total effective cost of 両1050. Since a weapon with this attribute is only half as effective, halving the cost of a maxed medium weapon is 両1500. Then extrapolating from that point, perhaps similar to halving the CP of self-inflicted status effects, you could half that 両1500 to 両750 so overall 1050 - 750 = 300 (not including the training part).

Edited October 21, 2022 by Celes

[almondsAndRain]

Hmm. I wasn't certain why the former version had to exist before Freehanded was a skill, when the difference between it and Freehanded was minimal, and now that Freehanded has a skill point cost associated with it, I really don't think this should exist as a workaround. While some options that effectively allow you to buy skills exist, I think them becoming commonplace would be bad for the long-term health of the game. Additionally, this effect is… not quite necessary for the user of a medium weapon, but it would be a good investment for anyone who has one but still wants to use their hands, because 300 ryo and some training is cheap compared to the skill point.

 

To continue on to the balancing factor here, I'm not convinced that reducing your levels by half for the purposes of basic weapon attacks is a good way to make this attribute approvable. Your other attributes still function perfectly fine, as does your special ability. If all you wanted was something that gave a few defensive attributes and a neat ability to boost them, you'd get that and not suffer any penalty at all. Even if you did want to attack with your weapon, you'd still have access to your weapon techniques, which, like I mentioned above, will benefit from your attributes and special ability, and while they aren't as cheap as basic attacks, they're still plenty good.

 

I believe your best bet here will be to bite the bullet and purchase Freehanded or maybe Quick Draw (or the skills that let you perform techs with one or no hands), and then alter this attribute to interact with them in some way. 

 

[Celes]

Eh, not really a bullet worth biting ultimately for that 1 skill point in particular at this stage of development. Before it was just about trying to make something that fit logically, which the intended character's weapon didn't for Freehanded. It wasn't entirely different than Retraction Spring needing to be fairly specific in what types of weapons it could apply to as well. Would've preferred something closer to it but leaned more to Freehanded overall.

 

Others have previously conveyed it's fine to take Freehanded despite not making sense at all but if there is no way to make this workable in any way outside of a skill point cost, it can be scrapped.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Celes

[almondsAndRain]

Okay, scrapping this for now. If you ever want to revisit it, feel free to ask me to move this back or to just make a new thread, since this one has already seen a lot of discussion.