Hanamajo | Seed Tender

[PandaMattMatt]

Seed Tender
Description: The Hanamajo are not often known for their battle abilities. Rather they are known for their innate connection to nature and plants. While the Hanamajo can nearly instantaneously grown fully matured plant life, it is fleeting and dies just as quickly. In order to maintain a long living healthy plant, it takes time and measures of chakra. With this method of battle, the Hanamajo is able to throw out seeds. These seeds are able to grant various benefits but require enough time to mature to give a more potent effect. 
Effect: As a Setup Phase Action, the skill taker may plant x Hanamajo Seeds. Planted seeds may be activated in any phase as a free action. As a Setup Phase Action, this character may choose to pay 3xy Chakra to increase the effects of all planted Hanamajo Seeds by +6x of that seed’s base effect. X is equal to the skill taker’s rank in this skill and Y is equal to the number of planted Hanamajo Seeds on the field. Ranks in this skill may only be taken once every 10 levels.
Ranks: 5
Cost: -1 sp per rank

 

Hanamajo Seeds - Standard Pack
Description: Known for their abilities to grow plants just about anywhere, the Hanamajo are always seen carrying a pouch of seeds on them. Used in battle, the Hanamajo throw out a handful of seeds that give various effects. Contents may vary!
Slots: .5 per Seed Pack
Effect: When this item is purchased, it contains 5 seeds. When used in battle, via the “Seed Tender” skill, the Hanamajo rolls a xd5 to determine which seeds are used. X is determined by the Seed Tender Skill.

1. Verdant Lotus Seed: When this Seed is activated, the User is granted “Induced Regeneration; 25” for 1 turn.
2. Sapphire Lotus Seed: When this Seed is activated, the User is granted “Ninjutsu; +20” for 1 turn.
3. Coral Lotus Seed: When this Seed is activated, the User is granted “Concentration; +20” for 1 turn.
4. Crimson Lotus Seed: When this Seed is activated, the User is granted “Evasion; +20” for 1 turn.
5. Opal Lotus Seed: When this Seed is activated, the User is granted a Shield with 30 health for 1 turn.

Cost: $100

 

Rules for Hanamajo Seed Packs: Each pack must contain 5 unique seeds with a value of no more than $20. The only status effects that can be inflicted by Hanamajo Seeds are “Induced Regen” and “Poison”. Seed packs that follow the above template, changing which stats are affected, it may be posted directly to the buy thread, requiring an approval of purchase from PandaMattMatt. Anything outside this template must be approved as a separate item with at least one approval from PandaMattMatt

Edited September 5, 2017 by PandaMattMatt

[PandaMattMatt]

Notes:

 

OK! So this is what I kind of want the Hanamajo Clan's "thing" to be. The Nara Have Shadows, the Auburame have Bugs, The Hanamajo have Seeds. Here is a quick break down of how it would work at Jounin level or roughly Level 60 which would be Rank 4 in this skill. We'll also use his current Chakra total of 800 as an example.

 

Quote

 

Turn 1 Setup Phase
Junsei Uses 5 Hanamajo Seeds from "Standard Pack"
Seed 1: 4 Crimson Lotus Seed [+20 Evasion]
Seed 2: 4 Crimson Lotus Seed [+20 Evasion]
Seed 3: 5 Opal Lotus Seed [30 Hp Shield]
Seed 4: 1 Verdant Lotus Seed [Induced Regen; 25]
Seed 5: 2 Sapphire Lotus Seed [Ninjutsu +20]

Turn 2 Setup Phase

Junsei activates "Seed Tender"
5 seeds are inactivated = 10% total Chakra cost: 80 Chakra
All seeds are increased by 100% of base effect!
Seed 1: 4 Crimson Lotus Seed [+40 Evasion]
Seed 2: 4 Crimson Lotus Seed [+40 Evasion]
Seed 3: 5 Opal Lotus Seed [60 Hp Shield]
Seed 4: 1 Verdant Lotus Seed [Induced Regen; 50]
Seed 5: 2 Sapphire Lotus Seed [Ninjutsu +40]

 

Turn 3 Response Phase
Junsei Activates 2 Crimson Lotus Seeds! Junsei's Evasion is increased by 80 for 1 turn!

 

Turn 3 Setup Phase

Junsei activates "Seed Tender"
3 seeds are inactivated = 6% total Chakra cost: 48 Chakra
All seeds are increased by 100% of base effect!
Seed 3: 5 Opal Lotus Seed [90 Hp Shield]
Seed 4: 1 Verdant Lotus Seed [Induced Regen; 75]
Seed 5: 2 Sapphire Lotus Seed [Ninjutsu +60]

 

 

What I really like about this is the secondary aspect of using consumables. It puts a more important lean on money for the Hanamajo and also allows each hanamajo to build a seed pack for their own specifications. 

 

So let's get this down to strongest levels. Yes, I have this maxed out at 6 ranks, which, by the calculation in the skill, would increase each seed by 150% of base. So the +20 stat seeds would increase by 30 every setup phase that the cost was paid. However, this means that at the EARLIEST (not counting Death Bonuses or whatnot) you could get this bonus is level 100. Which, I think is a pretty good progression. At level 0, you get 25% of base effect, level 20 you get 50% of base effect, 40, is 75% of base effect, 60 is 100%, 80 is 125% and 100 is 150%.

 

Yes, you could potentially keep throwing out seeds but you'd A.) be blowing through consumables that cost enough money to actually be an impact. B.) if you wanted to power them up at all, you would have to pay an unfun amount of chakra every setup phase. Even at 10 seeds, that 20% total chakra. Which, for a ninjutsu based clan, is a lot and even with Chakra Flow Rank 2, you paying that upkeep as well as firing off techniques, it gets pricey, so it kind of balances itself out. C.) You can't throw out seeds and power them up at the same time. You have to choose one or the other.

 

Final Thing: The Seed Pack is here so you can see what you're working with. I am completely fine Submitting the Seeds as a Custom Item once this skill is finished, I just knew it would be difficult to get the item approved without the skill and vice versa. At least now you can see exactly what the "Standard Pack" is and the template for other seeds. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by PandaMattMatt

[PandaMattMatt]

Bump

[PandaMattMatt]

Bump

[PandaMattMatt]

Bump

[Yurane]

Quote

Effect: As a Setup Phase Action, the skill taker may use x+1 Hanamajo Seeds. These Seeds may be activated in any phase as a Free Action. As a Setup Phase Action, this character may choose to pay 2y% of their Total Chakra to increase the effects of all inactivated Hanamajo Seeds by 25x% of that seed’s base effect. X is equal to the skill taker’s rank in this skill and Y is equal to the number of inactivated Hanamajo Seeds on the field. This is considered an “Upkeep” for the purpose of Status Effects. Ranks in this skill may only be taken once every 20 levels.

Alright, so, I have a question about how the things I've highlighted interact, so I'm just going to lay it out as I understand it so far. Basically, as far as the mechanics go, it's set trap buff consumables, but instead of waiting a long time for accuracy you pay some chakra/a setup for extra potency, right?

 

Basically, this is saying that... the seeds have a base value, let's call it 20 PMM Units/PMMU which is basically $1 or 1 stat. You can use two at rank one, and one more per rank, so... 2-7 per turn. Each one you use costs you about equivalent to $20 per seed.

 

As a setup phase, before they've been activated (as it specifies the enhancement is to inactivated seeds), you can increase the value before you activate them, by 25% per rank in the skill, so 5 PMMU per rank, ranging from 25 to 50 PMMU. Doing so costs 2% chakra per seed. Which brings me to a question, seeing as the listed seeds all have a duration of one turn: What do you mean by 'This is considered an 'Upkeep'? Is this a one-time payment that's considered an upkeep for some other purpose, or are you using it regularly? As the seeds state they only last for one turn, it gives the impression it's a one-and-done, but your example post mentioned paying 20% *per post* for maintaining 10 seeds, so I'm not sure where this is landing.

 

Also, assuming a scenario where someone uses this at max rank with, say, 1500 chakra, they would be paying $20 and 30 chakra for ~50 stats or 62 poison/regeneration. I think the upkeep pricing is actually a little high.. for a ninjutsu user. If, for example, a taijutsu leaning Hanamojo character with like 200 chakra took this, they could be paying essentially just the $20 and like 4 chakra for that, which is just a little too good for something handled in the setup.

 

My suggestion would be to make the cost be both Total Chakra & Stamina and to place the upkeep cost at 1% instead. That would put a full power full turn's use of this (7 seeds, $140 +7% upkeep [roughly, 105 chakra with a 1500 chakra build, with negligible stamina cost] ~350 PMMU) into something more manageable and efficient cost wise, while being balanced regardless of how your clan members decided to build themselves. Of course, it's ultimately up to you how you'd like to address it, this is just my 2 cents.

 

 

[PandaMattMatt]

So, the line stating that this is considered an upkeep is for status effects like "Sickened" so that there is a form of counterplay. I consider it an upkeep cause realistically I see seeds being thrown on the first turn and buffed.

 

The ideal usage of this skill is that every you can potentially buff the seeds. So theoretically, you could keep buffing these for 10 turns. So at rank 4, after 10 turns each seed grants about +200 stats for 1 turn. And at rank six, after 10 turns each seed would be worth about 320 stats for 1 turn.

 

So I call it an upkeep because in order to use it properly, you have to upkeep the cost every turn, other wise they don't get buffed.

 

I don't mind mechanically paying 1% Chakra and Stamina, but it doesn't make sense flavor wise. I mean I guess it could be swung as pouring just "energy" into the seeds. But, yeah I'd be fine bringing this down in cost. Maybe just paying x per Seed where x is the static increase to the seeds.

 

So like it scales with rank and still costs a lot of you have a bunch of seeds.

 

I think x per Seed is a better way now that I think about it. Rank 1 would be paying 5 Chakra per Seed to increase each seed by about 5 points.

 

Rank 1: 5 Chakra per Seed = 5 Stats

Rank 2: 10 Chakra per Seed = 10 stats

Rank 3: 15 per Seed = 15 Stats

Rank 4: 20 per Seed = 20 Stats

Rank 5: 25 per Seed = 25 Stats

Rank 6: 30 per Seed = 30 stats.

 

Basically this keeps a 1:1 ratio, keeps costs managable and meaningful for both Nin and Tai characters.

[Yurane]

Sickened only applies to techniques, but I get what you were trying to do here now. Since you're paying money for this as well as chakra, I think a 1:1 ratio is a bit too expensive. I mean, if you want it that way, more power to you, but I think something like a 3:5 ratio would be better? That would put this about on par with Jonin/Sennin genjutsu for buff/debuff ratios, but you're paying several SP + money (and potentially several turns) to do this on top of the chakra, so I think it should be okay.

[PandaMattMatt]

Edited! I made this into a static increase, but does the same thing mathematically. Removed the sickened thing. Used your 3:5 ratio idea.

[Leon]

Good with all the costs and effects at the moment. I think Seed Tender needs some more clarity in the description. Does it mean something akin to the user equipping seeds in setup phase and then having the choice to consume them in any phase as a free action? I view them more as a consumable myself which is typically done in the setup phase. I don't think it needs to be every 20 level either as the effects seem relatively tame compared to SP cost?

 

I may do something like this myself: 

 

As a free action during the setup phase the user may consume X + 1 Hanamajo seeds. Following the consumption of a Hanamajo seed the user may use a set-up phase action to increase all consumed Hanamajo Seed's base effect by +5X at the cost of 3XY in chakra.  (X = Rank in Skill; Y = Amount of Consumed Hanamajo Seeds)

[PandaMattMatt]

That wording doesn't actually work too well for what I intended, also the use of consumption makes this confusing.

 

Essentially, there are three states a Hanamajo seed can be in. 
Not in Play: This is when the seed is in your inventory, doing nothing, hasn't played at all.

On the Field, but inactive: This is when you throw a seed onto the field, as a setup phase action. From here, you leave the seed inactive so that every setup phase, you can buff the seed's bonus.

Activated: This the moment when a seed is actually "used" by the character and when that character actually gets that bonus.This would have to remain as a free action since the various effects can/would be used in different phases.

 

I did bring down the level/rank requirements to 1 rank per 10 levels.

[Pwnzie]

Is there a cap on how many seed packs you are allowed to carry? Once this starts passing turn 3 bonuses, having like 10 of these on you could start getting really wonky with the bonuses. Basically be a way to keep rolling buffs on yourself for an entire fight for like 200-300$? Which for an entire fight? Thats incredibly cheap. 

 

I kinda agree with Leon, that it seems weird that you specify they are used in the setup phase, but you can also use them in any phase as a free action? Im not sure Im ok with the second part, limiting them to setup (or 'using' seeds effects maximum once per turn) feels more balanced then letting you do it in any phase for free for a couple skill points. 

 

Not in Play: This is when the seed is in your inventory, doing nothing, hasn't played at all.

For that, does that include multiple seed packs? Like if you have 7 diff seed packs in your inventory? What would happen then? 

 

Activated: This the moment when a seed is actually "used" by the character and when that character actually gets that bonus.This would have to remain as a free action since the various effects can/would be used in different phases.

If you want the effects to be used in different phases you may need to consume the phase to achieve that, there are a lot of different combinations you can make using these arbitrarily in any phase you like in addition to another effect that consumes the phase action (like another consumable in setup phase for instance). 

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Pwnzie

[PandaMattMatt]

OK! So, I think there has been some confusion as to how this skill works. I consulted a sage and made a simple, but hopefully effective swap on some of the words. 

 

So, these are like... slow burn set traps that you can't just set and forget, you have to constantly pay for them in order to get any bonus. Also, you don't get said bonus the whole fight. 

For example, Let's say Junsei plants 5 seeds, one of each seed listed above. Planting these seeds (bringing them to the field) requires an entire setup phase. In order to increase the effect of the seeds, you must also spend a Setup Phase! Which means you cannot plant seeds and buff them at the same time! Now! Once these seeds are planted, they still do not give any benefit to the user at all. Like a set trap. The cost to buff these seeds increases based on the number of seeds planted, which means A.) A character must choose to either plant seeds for more (this also costs a consumable, which a certain amount of that cost should be considered here as well) or B.) to buff seeds they have already planted.

 

Turn 0 
5 Hanamajo Seeds are Planted | No Benefit to the user
Cost: -$100 item and Setup Phase
Turn 1
Seeds are buffed. | No Benefit to the User

Cost: -Chakra and Setup Phase

Turn 2
Seeds are buffed. | No benefit to the User

Cost: -Chakra and Setup Phase
Turn 3

2 of the 5 seeds are used in the response phase! | User has 2 stats increased for 1 turn!
remaining 3 seeds are buffed as a Setup phase action

Cost: -Chakra and Setup Phase

Turn 4
Previous stat increase expires

5 more seeds planted | No benefit to the user | Previously Planted seeds are not buffed.

Cost: -$100 item and setup phase.

 

I hope this clears up a little bit as to why the Free Action portion is vitally necessary to this skill and hopefully the switch to "planted" helps state what I mean when the seeds are brought on to the field.
 

Edited August 29, 2017 by PandaMattMatt

[Pwnzie]

I suppose this is fine, you have to put in a lot of effort to get the higher bonuses. 

 

Approved. 

[cntrstrk14]

Overall this seems fine. With six ranks you can have up to 7 seeds planted in the first turn and increase their effects by +30 per turn. You always are getting a 3:5 ratio on Chakra -> Effects which is pretty good, but that is why you have to also pay money and SP for this, because 1.) cheaper ratios (mostly, you get a little screwed on shields at high ninja ranks) and 2.) flexibility (free action any time is strong). 

 

What I want to talk about though is the Seed Packs and your numbers. I have 6 ranks, which means you end up at 7 seeds. But you can only buy them in packs of 5. Have you considered instead of selling it in packs instead just selling it by the seed? Also, I would say each seed could be like .1 Item Slot, so .5 slots for a pack. 

 

Do you think 6 ranks is the most effective payload for this? What about 4 ranks and a +6x on effect? I think given your paying letting you slide from 3:5 to 1:2 would be fine and it would mean you're paying a fair price on shields later on too. This would probably be fine given the price and inability to choose the buffs when you plant them. This would also make the seed packs a lot less awkward. 

 

Last question, more clarification. When you say "when used in battle roll xd5" does that mean per seed pack? Can a person take seeds from theoretical different packs in a setup phase or do they all have to be from the same pack?

[PandaMattMatt]

I adjusted the number of seeds played to be just x and brought up the buff to be +6x while also dropping the ranks to 5.

 

This means a max of 5 seeds may be planted at a time and be buffed at 1:2 ratio as suggested. This should clean things up a bit.

 

I don't really want to sell by the Seed,  mostly because I want to keep some aspect of random choice in this. Currently, you buy a seed pack which MAY contain any number of the 5 seeds listed. So if you used the Standard Pack, and rolled really (un)lucky, you could end up with 5 Coral Lotus Seeds which grant a base of +20 con each. To answer your other question: The idea was that each character could create their own custom pack, so like Junsei's pack could be very different from Sara's pack. which would hopefully mean they wouldn't want to pick and choose between 5 different packs. However, when you plant seeds all x seeds must come from the same kind of pack. At lower ranks, you'll end up with "partial packs" which means of you can plant 3 seeds, but your standard pack only has 2 left, you either only plant 2 seeds, or you plant the remaining 2 and open another standard pack to plant 1 more.

 

completely against the idea of just selling individual seeds, I just preferred the idea of each pack being a complete surprise to everyone involved. Like cracking a pack of MTG cards haha

Edited September 5, 2017 by PandaMattMatt

[cntrstrk14]

I think this looks good now, the numbers are smoother and I think they are still good. This will need another approval though since it changed significantly, maybe @Pwnzie can take another look since he is familiar with this and check my suggestions. 

 

Approved

[Pwnzie]

Approved.