Juinka | Cursed Seal Transformation | 呪印化

[Princess]

Juinka | Cursed Seal Transformation | 呪印化

 

Originally developed by the leaf village’s disgraced Sannin Orochimaru, the legacy of the Cursed Seal is one of pain, death and despair. When Orochimaru discovered the possessors of the Sennika bloodline, he was astounded by their natural affinity for the elusive Senjutsu and the impressive transformative abilities they possessed (their unslakable bloodlust was a minor inconvenience he was happy to work around). Combining what he had discovered in their genetic code with his own chakra and elements of various other studies, Orochimaru successfully created the Cursed Seals. Small marks which, when activated, would grant the user incredible strength and bonus reserves of energy at a detrimental cost to their own health. Initially, through experimentation, it was determined but one in ten would survive the process of implanting a Cursed Seal, and as such only a very select few were given access to such power. 

 

This power flooded the body with Orochimaru's senjutsu, giving them access to incredible chakra reserves and feats beyond normal human capacity. Their bodies would shift and change as the seal integrated deeper with their core, altering their external appearance to match the Sennika monsters more closely. Bizarre fleshy mutations, dark sclera and piercing golden eyes were hallmarks of the strongest Cursed Seal users, and even those with less potency would find the strange ritualistic markings spreading far across their body to bring them strength in their time of greatest need, or moments of darkest weakness.

 

There was more to the Cursed Seals than just giving power to the user through, the seal worked its way into their will, breaking down their resistance and making them more pliable to Orochimaru’s wishes. His greatest warriors and intended hosts both were equipped with these marks, and at once they made truly frightening combatants as they made relatively more pliable host bodies. Beyond that, the final value of the Cursed Seals, for Orochimaru himself at least, was their function as a last ditch grab at immortality. A portion of his very being was imbued in each seal, and from them he could rise up if called or if the bearer’s will and strength failed completely. 

 

At some point over the last hundred or so years, Orochimaru’s disappearance caused the Cursed Seals to fade into relative obscurity, the knowledge of their creation and means by which they were delivered all but lost to time. However in recent years there has been a few rumours throughout the ninja world, warriors returning with forbidden marks and unimaginable power. Debate rages in certain circles if this is a sign that Orochimaru is working his influence on the world once more, or if perhaps someone else has discovered his methods and is using them for their own cruel designs. Neither conspiracy bodes well for the world.
 

Cursed Seal Special Rules

• The Cursed Seal may not be gained except as the result of the technique Juinjutsu •

• The Cursed Seal is not considered an Advanced System •
• The Cursed Seal can only be activated once per battle •

 

 

 

Jotai Rei | Cursed Seal Stage 0 | 状態0

All bearers of the Cursed Seal start off in a state of contest between themselves and the evil power the seal offers. It is not a reliable font of power to draw upon, and doing so carries great risk and causes immense pain. And yet for those who strive to master this power, there is no measure of pain or suffering too great to pay for the power that lies just out of their current reach. The seal spreads across the body when activated, a glowing pattern that spreads until much of the body is covered, unlocking power as it does so. Such activations come in moments of great stress or desperation, and typically don’t wear off until the stress is removed or the user is defeated. With exposure and training, the seal can be brought into a semblance of control, if it doesn’t consume the bearer first.
Requirements: Possess the skill ‘Cursed Seal’.
Activation: Once per battle, as a free action in the Main Phase, the user may roll a D10. If the result is equal to or lower than their ranks in Corruption, the Cursed Seal is activated, they gain 1 rank in Corruption and cannot be deactivated for a number of turns equal to their ranks in Corruption. Add 1 to this roll if the user's Health is at 50% of its base or lower. (Stage 0 has no mechanical benefits).

Advancement: The next stage of Cursed Seal is only unlocked when making an activation roll as above, and passing with a roll of 8-10. 

 

Stage 0 Skill:

 

The Price of Power: 

The cursed seal grants immeasurable power, but it does so at a cost. To fuel the intake of natural energy, the cursed seal consumes the chakra and fortitude of its bearer. Though one would think losing the very building blocks of the shinobi way of life would be difficult, the power they lose pales in comparison to the power they gain in return.

Effect: The user’s chakra and stamina regeneration are each reduced by 5% permanently once this skill is gained. SP gained by this skill can be gained after character creation, and is not restrained by limits on additional SP gained by hindering skills. When targeted by the technique Immortality Skill, reduce your Concentration by 75X, where X is your ranks in  Corruption.

Requirements: Cursed Seal

Cost: +3

 

Jotai ichi | Cursed Seal Stage 1 | 状態1

Once the Cursed Seal has worn away the surface level of resistance, it becomes more innately linked to the user's understanding of their own power and strength. They become less able to think of their limits without the Cursed Seal, it's chakra is addictive and the heady ability it provides intoxicating. Mastering its activation allows for incredibly control over the length at which the seal spreads, and thus the levels of which its power can be unlocked. The path to fully understanding the Cursed Seal is not an easy one to walk, however, and one must give themselves over entirely to the evil within if they are to reach this stage.

 

It is here that the Senjutsu tainted chakra manifests the golden eyes of a Sage, and the molten patterns of the Cursed Seal surge freely across the body, adjusting the power output to better suit the need at the time. It is this adaptability that makes the Cursed Seal so powerful a tool, where many are forced to draw all or none of their gifts out the fully activated Cursed Seal becomes the height of artisan precision. To some, it may seem counterproductive that it functions this way. If the goal of the Cursed Seal is to erode the defences of the mind, then why would it allow for smaller activations that limit the impact it can have?

 

Its creators knew better. A thousand small activations will do the same as a handful of larger ones, and few are those who tastes this power once without dreaming of doing so again, and again, and again.
Requirements: Cursed Seal Stage 0 Advancement - Success
Special Rules: Upon successfully advancing to Cursed Seal Stage 1, lose all but 1 of your ranks in Corruption. The maximum number of ranks you may have in Corruption is increased by 5 permanently. 

Activation: Once per battle, as a Setup Phase Action, the user may gain up to 1 rank in Corruption and Activate the Cursed Seal. They may then roll a D15. If the result is 10 or more higher than their ranks in Corruption, they are Enraged [4]. If the result is 5-9 higher, they are Enraged [2]. If the result is 1-4 points higher, they are Enraged [1]. Add 1 to this roll if the user's Health is at 50% of its base or lower. 

Advancement: The next stage of Cursed Seal is only unlocked when making an activation roll as above, rolling a 15, and gaining no turns of Enraged as a result.

Upkeep: 2.5% Total Health

 

 

Cursed Seal Stage 1 Skill:

 

Corrupted Senjutsu Stage 1:

The purpose of the cursed seal was twofold. To imbue the user with Senjutsu chakra and weaken their resolve. Even knowing the latter, the draw of such a powerful resource tempts many to fall closer and closer to giving in to it, for which can stand against such might? The rush senjutsu provides, heightening senses and empowering muscles, once experienced can never be compared to anything else. 
Effect: When this skill is gained, the user gains a new tank stat, 'Senjutsu Chakra' with no maximum value. This tank stat persists between threads, and is not lost when the Cursed Seal is deactivated. Each turn, while the Cursed Seal Stage 1 is active, the user gains 50 Senjutsu Chakra, and may use Senjutsu Chakra to pay part or all of the Health, Chakra, Stamina or Senjutsu Chakra costs of any technique. If a technique has its entire cost paid with Senjutsu chakra, it deals an additional 1X% base damage (where X is your ranks in Corruption, up to a maximum of 15). Once per battle, if X is 10 or higher, a technique with it's entire cost paid with Senjutsu Chakra may instead increase the duration of one status effect on the technique which does not have a variable cost and is not 'Stunned' by 1, ignoring turn and battle limits on the status effect. 
Cost: -2

 

Corrupted Infusion Stage 1:
As senjutsu chakra floods their body, much of it is channelled into the seal, but a small portion of that incredible power is diffused into the bearer themselves. Adjusting to their needs almost instinctively, this is one of the greatest draws of activating the cursed seal. Awakening this latent power lurking in their body, the bearer can grow stronger, faster, tougher or whatever they need to overcome any threat before them, a power that blinds them to the cost they one day no doubt will pay.
Effect: While the Cursed Seal Stage 1 is active, the user gains one of the following effects. 

• If you do not have an Advanced System active, you gain 2X Stats that you may distribute freely between all of your Non-Tank Statistics. If your ranks in Corruption are 10 or more, you gain 2.5X additional stats instead.
• If you have an Advanced System active, you may redistribute additional stats gained by that Advanced System up to a maximum of 2X. If your ranks in Corruption are 15 or more, and the value of additional stats granted by your Advanced System are less than 2X, you may gain X additional stats, distributed as you wish, as long as the total stats granted by your Advanced System and the Cursed Seal do not exceed 2X.

Cost: -1

 

Corrupted Mastery
When the boundless power of the Cursed Seal Stage 2 is achieved, the simple benefits of the first stage seem pale in comparison, but to believe this would be foolish for both a user and opponent. The more controlled release of Natural Energy prevents the worst impacts on the body, while still providing ample strength as required.
Effect: The upkeep for Cursed Seal Stage 1 becomes 5% Chakra, 5% Stamina, or 2.5% Chakra & Stamina (decided when this skill is taken), doesn't require a roll, and doesn't grant ranks in Corruption. In addition, there is no longer a limit to the number of times you can activate Cursed Seal Stage 1 per battle, and activating the Cursed Seal Stage 2 becomes a free action if you deactivate this stage in the same Setup Phase. 

Requirements: Apotheosis, Corruption [25] or higher
Cost: -3

 

 

Jotai ni | Cursed Seal Stage 2 | 状態2

The true form of the Cursed Seal, the drastic physical mutations of the Sennika combined with the insidious dark Senjutsu of Orochimaru. The mind becomes cold and numb to all but the darkest of emotions, hatred and fear rule those who summon this form. Their destructive capabilities are all but unmatched by any the ninja world has seen, but they have paid one hell of a price for what they have gained. Their bodies are no longer truly their own, and a wicked sentience lurks inside them, awaiting the chance to escape and assert itself once and for all. 

 

The skin turns dark, unique patterns appear on the flesh, hair grows pale and wild, nails extend into claws and strange adaptations sprout from the body. Where the first stage of the Cursed Seal causes the internal evil of the wielder to creep to the surface, with the mastered second stage they truly appear as a demon amongst ninja-kind. Their gifts are manifold, unique defensive and offensive capabilities that no other can truly comprehend. Their chakra manifests as dark purple, or sometimes as a seething blackness, whatever form it or even they themselves take, it is undeniable there is little good left inside their hearts at this stage. The Cursed Seal has won. What remains is not quite the person who once was inflicted with the initial Cursed Seal, in their minds it is something more, to those around it's likely something less. Time changes all of us, but none so drastically as the bearers of the Cursed Seals.

-This does not replace Cursed Seal Stage 1-
Requirements: Cursed Seal Stage 1 Advancement - Passed
Special Rules: Upon successfully advancing to Cursed Seal Stage 2 the maximum number of ranks you may have in Corruption is increased by 15 permanently (30 total). The Cursed Seal Stage 2 gains the following special rules while active.

Activation: Once per battle, as a Setup Phase Action, the user may gain up to 1 rank in Corruption and Activate the Cursed Seal Stage 2. If the user cannot gain ranks in Corruption, they lose 2.5% Total Health as an activation cost instead.

Upkeep: 5% Total Health

 

Apotheosis

The greatest boon and curse of natural energy and the twisted genetics of the Sennika is the mutations it can wreak upon the body. To an outsider, these can be hideous in appearance, but the bearer understands its value. The various forms of cursed seal grant incredible powers the human form simply cannot contain. It is, for some, unfortunate that it is not the will and drive of the bearer that dictates this mutation, but the insidious nature of the one who granted it. For it is in this moment, the awakening of their greatest power, the bearer of a cursed seal realises their destiny is no longer their own. This is, without doubt, the point of no return.

Effect: Upon gaining this skill, the owner of the character who granted you the Cursed Seal chooses one of the following options:

Quote

• Heaven: The user possesses taloned, hand like wings which grant flight. In addition, twice per battle, at the beginning of the Response Phase, the bearer of this seal may increase their Evasion statistic by 1.5x its total. This effect lasts for 1 turn.

• Earth: The user possesses a long, muscular tail. In addition, once per battle, when performing a physical attack paid for completely with Senjutsu Chakra, the user ignores a percentage of the opponent's defence equal to the additional base damage they deal. This must be declared when using the technique.
 

• South Gate: The user's skin grows maroon and studded with hard, keratinous warts. In addition, twice per battle, at the beginning of the Response Phase, the bearer of this seal may increase their Defence statistic by 1.5x its total. This effect lasts for 1 turn.

• East Gate: The user's skin grows bright red and their head spouts two small horns. In addition, twice per battle, at the beginning of the Main Phase, the bearer of this seal may increase their Accuracy statistic by 1.5x its total. This effect lasts for 1 turn.

• West Gate: The user's skin is covered in thick plates of dark armour, and they grow two large horns from their temples. In addition, twice per battle, when paying Upkeep for the Cursed Seal Stage 2, the user may gain X health, where X is the value of health they would normally lose in Upkeep. They do not pay Upkeep when this ability is used.

• North Gate: The user grows a 'crown' of horns about their head, which grow longer with their rage and exertion. In addition, instead of increasing base damage, techniques paid for entirely with Senjutsu Chakra increase all Stat modifiers (positive or negative) by 1X% instead (with the same maximum values).

Once gained, the choice in this skill can never be changed. If, for whatever reason, this skill is lost and then regained, the choice made the second time must be identical to the first. 

Requirements: Cursed Seal Stage 1 Advancement - Passed

Cost: -2

 

Corrupted Senjutsu - Stage 2

The final, true form of the cursed seal is unlike any other source of power in the world. Raw, untamed natural energy flows through the body so rapidly and in such concentrated values that the body cannot help but adapt to this power. Doing so causes rampant mutation, leaving them barely recognisable as the ninja they once were, but it is a price they all pay willingly. With such impossible powers at their beck and call, can any ever really stand up against them?

Effect: Each turn, while the Cursed Sea Stage 2 l is active, the user gains 150 Senjutsu Chakra, and may use Senjutsu Chakra to pay part or all of the Health, Chakra, Stamina or Senjutsu Chakra costs of any technique. If a technique has its entire cost paid with Senjutsu chakra, it deals an additional 1X% base damage (where X is your ranks in Corruption). Once per battle for every 10 ranks in Corruption the user possesses, a technique with it's entire cost paid with Senjutsu Chakra may instead increase the duration of one status effect on the technique which does not have a variable cost and is not 'Stunned' by 1, ignoring turn and battle limits on the status effect.

Requirements: Apotheosis 

Cost: -2

 

Corrupted Infusion Stage 2:
Much like how their ability to absorb senjutsu chakra grows greatly as the cursed seal makes a deeper connection, awakening the second stage of the cursed seal fully unlocks the absolute limits of their body as senjutsu chakra floods their body with reckless abandon. The mutations, the bloodlust, the raw unstoppable power are more addictive than any drug known to man, and often it is the first awakening of this incredible power which truly damns the bearer, though many would argue by the point they can achieve this power, they are already long since gone.
Effect: While the Cursed Seal Stage 2 is active, the user gains one of the following effects. 

• If you do not have an Advanced System active, you gain 4X Stats that you may distribute freely between all of your Non-Tank Statistics. If your ranks in Corruption are 25 or more, you gain 4.5X additional stats instead.
• If you have an Advanced System active, you may redistribute additional stats gained by that Advanced System up to a maximum of 4X. If your ranks in Corruption are 30 and the value of additional stats granted by your Advanced System are less than 4X, you may gain 2X additional stats, distributed as you wish, as long as the total stats granted by your Advanced System and the Cursed Seal do not exceed 4X.

Requirements: Apotheosis
Cost: -2

Edited February 2, 2023 by Princess

[Princess]

==Additional Stuff==

 

All relevant skills, techniques and items intended to be integral parts of the Cursed Seal are linked in the threads below.

Techniques:
 

Foundational Techniques

Skills:

 

Foundational Skill

 

Items:

Mind Awakening Pills

Edited February 24, 2021 by Princess

[Princess]

Alrighty, KC was working on the Cursed Seal of Heaven but didn't have enough in the way of ideas, I asked him if I could have a crack, he gave me his blessing, so here is my shot at it.

 

What's the goal here? A fairly risky, incredibly high damage AS that has some cool mechanics attached to it. So it starts off out of your control, you keep using it until you get used to it, and using it gets easier every time, once you're used to it, you can just throw it out whenever you want. You can modify the amount of power you're getting from it, and that changes the cost and what you get out of it. I feel that scaling mechanic is going to help make it stand out from other systems, and accurately represents what we saw Sasuke doing with it throughout the series. 

 

The maths here was wildly out of date with my constant changes chasing approval. See below posts for greater information and once staff comments on this I'll lock in some concrete math analysis here.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Princess

[Princess]

Made a couple of changes, and will go fix that broken gif when I get home tonight. 

Stage 1 is now capped at 3X, which is 450 chakra and 720 stats, with 25% base damage dealt and received. Originally it went up to 4, and stage 2 up to 5, but I realised once you mastered stage to, the extra stats weren't really worth the health loss, so I needed to make sure there was a meaningful gulf between them.

I also reworded Curse Seal Madness. Before it was just you deal extra base damage and take extra base damage. Explicitly stated that extra base damage in both directions can break caps, but your extra damage can't stack with any other sources. That means no sticking cursed seal and shiva together for insane power, but if you opponent is rocking shiva, they are sticking it together. Hell if they have Brahma and are rocking that 30% extra tai base damage, they're actually getting more base damage than you are for your AS, which I feel suits given how often Sasuke got schooled by taijutsu. Lee smashed him, Bee smashed him, Raikage nearly annihilated him. Boys got some problems with getting his tail handed to him up close.

 

Finally, because of moving the cap of stage 1 down from 4 to 3, I changed rank 1 adaptation to no longer enable a higher Y value, just to reduce the cost by 5% (meaning until you get stage 2, you're paying 10% chakra and health for the above listed bonuses).

 

Stage 2, for those wondering, caps out at huge values, 1200 non-tank stats, 1000 chakra, 50% base damage dealt and 25% base damage received. When you leave cursed seal, you lose that 1000 chakra, not just from your max but your total as well, and there's downsides if you go to hard. To pay for this, you're losing 10% Chakra and 10% Health a turn, meaning it doesn't just turn off regen, it runs past it. You can't change Y values while it's active, so you need to be careful what you pick for what fight you do.


I think this is about as close to cannon as we're going to get the cursed seal, and I do plan to take it on Otome as a test case and to see if I can't get an AS on her as he doesn't have one. But also, want it in the game because it's what all the little edgelords will want if they can't get an Uchiha.

EDIT 03/07/2020:
Ohoho boy if you lot aren't critting this and finding out what's wrong better believe I am going to. So Cursed Seal Affinity 3, that one was a bit of a terribly worded mess. The way it worked was simple, as a Response Phase Action, gain evasion in place of your offence and concentration in place of your speed, allowing you to more easily avoid incoming attacks, right? Well it was poorly written. You still gained the chakra, but then lost it instantly, that was silly. Also, the very act of activating the cursed seal WAS the response phase action. So you get these nifty dodge bonuses, but can't take the dodge action because you just used your action, then it vanishes at the end of that response phase. So it literally never does anything. Garbage.

NOW, it does a thing! Sasuke was mostly using the defensive partial transformations to defend himself, popping out a wing to block an attack. So this works to increase your defence in place of your other stat gains, meaning you can pop this to gain up to 1200 defence at the cost of 5% of your chakra and 5% of your health. It shuts down all other bonuses (so no chakra gain/loss) and block cursed seal madness (so you can't suffering 25% more damage too). 

Cursed Seal Adaptation 3, being the silly mess it was, took away your raised Y cap. So it now retains the increase from Adaptation 2, so it makes sense.  

 

Change Cursed Seal Stage 1 and Stage 2 to make it explicit what's lost when you deactivate it and fix the stat gain up so it doesn't read like you only gain ninjutsu/speed the first time you activate it.

 

EDIT 06/07/2020:
The fixing continues, hopefully to the point you lot literally can just read and stamp. But I'll keep going. Coz again I want this RELATIVELY SOON, so you know...would be nice...

ANYWHO! Today's fixes:

The gifs are fixed up and hosted on imgur so they don't vanish again. All good on the gif front.

Stage 0 was weird. It had its own set of rules for costs and activation that were 10% base, partial activation reduced it by 5%, overwhelming activation increased it by 5%. And the Y values went 1, 2, 3. Hmmmmm. Almost like this could be represented with the same 5Y% as the rest of the AS. Silly princess. That is now fixed to the same 5Y% as the rest of it. I'm also updating the third post of the justifications, so the logic in it matches the current state of the AS and lays everything out. Also it never stated what it took to activate. Silly. So you make the activation roll in the Setup Phase as an action (so it eats that phase) then if you pass the roll you MUST spend your next Main Phase activating the Cursed Seal. GMs can award additional rolls added too. Everything should be suuuper clear on stage 0 now.

 

The defensive application of Stage 2 now costs Chakra instead of Health (why the hell are you paying health to reduce damage? Silly princess again) and, as it is functionally an RPJ, it has a limit of twice per battle as is normal. It does not, however, have a fail chance, as it's a skill not actually an RPJ.

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Princess

[Princess]

Lowered the overall power and cost by a substantial amount.

It now ONLY increases your Offensive stat and Cha/Stam, instead of Offence+Speed+Chakra/Stamina. That means you're at 120/240/360/480/600 for Offence. Combined with your 200/400/600/800/1000 chakra gain, you're sitting on a max of 1600 combined stats.

 

Stage 1 cursed seal pays 5% Chakra Activation, 2.5% Chakra Upkeep, caps out at 450 Chakra and 360 Offence. You might be saying 'but advanced systems need to stop regen' and to that I say no. One of the key functions of the Cursed Seal was a source of additional resources, using senjutsu to empower you but also let you fight on when you no longer could. Stage 1, once mastered, is a fairly small stat gain for an advanced system (810) but it's real value is giving you those stats while still letting you regenerate, essentially stage 1 is your cooldown mode once capped. It nukes advanced regen still, but it lets you have those stats while still regaining, which is the goal, not to mention the extra damage dealt/received can be incredibly useful on burst. 

Stage 2 cursed seal pays 5% Chakra Activation, 2.5% Chakra and 2.5% Health Upkeep, caps out at 1000 Chakra and 600 Offence. You're sitting at 1600 total stats here, which is rather high, and like stage 1 you're still getting some of your regen, but for the extra stats, you're now burning health. You also get to deal more extra damage than you receive, but again, you're losing health every turn on top of it. 

 

Key reason I got to 2.5% for the values was stage 1 is doing like half the stats of what other AS do, no sense paying full cost for half the value when the secondary effect is exactly as harmful to you as it is beneficial to you. For CS2, it used to be beyond the stats of other AS, which justified the 5% health and chakra a turn costs, essentially 3 times that of a normal AS if we consider health as worth 2x its value in chakra/stamina. Now, it's 2.5/2.5, because that adds up to 5, allows the CS to do it's anime inspired job of flooding you with extra energy and offensive power, and if we go by the above consideration it's still technically 7.5% cost as opposed to the standard 5%. So I am fairly confident the cost is fine on these.

 

Reduced the cost on Affinity Rank 3 to 1 SP and half activation cost, used to be you were able to, twice per battle, summon 1200 defence. Now it's 600. So happy with that.

 

Fairly confident this version is good to go, but will continue going over it and making edits until someone braves it and wanders in. I believe in you, random staff member. You can do this.

[Princess]

I'm back now, Otome should be once again moving towards jounin rank, where I want this to kick in. Eyes would be greatly appreciated^^ Couldn't think of any more changes, I'm quite happy with where it is now.

[Cellar Door]

Alright, I had more written out, and have now decided that that was too much to digest in one sitting. First thing's first.

Before we start talking about the advanced system, you must put the techniques where the techniques go, and dialogue needs to be had about what the cursed sealing jutsu and the curse seal do. If you're going to have a single, basic advanced system that incorporates all of the cursed seals, the application point is a great place to decide how the seal will evolve without people having to spend SP on it.

That being said, this AS feels not at all like a Cursed Seal to me. It feels like if MTG snuck in here and made a black mana version of an advanced system. It sorta uses health as a resource, but then it doesn't... and then it doesn't even close to tackle how their whole existence revolves around Senjutsu Chakra and mutating into monsters. It's just... +offense. But we will talk more about what can be done after I see a technique-sheet that looks something liiiiike this link here

Gotta know the foundation is sturdy before you build a tower.


 

[Princess]

Alright, everything is now diverged into the correct areas. 

The key area to look at, where I am starting the redesign, is the Cursed Seal Foundational Skills. I have broken the CS up into three forms, Nin/Gen/Tai (hybrids can just make do with a boost on one or suck it up) in the form of Heaven/Man/Earth (following standard eastern spiritual division). These will determine the basic form of how the AS will work. Things will refer to the choice made in Monster Within, and I made it a skill with 10 ranks, but you can never willingly take ranks. 

I am thinking that, as you use it more and more, you will have to make a roll against a set chance, and failed rolls grant additional ranks of Monster Within. Elements of the CS will grow stronger depending on your ranks in Monster Within, but at max ranks you suffer penalties as your willpower is completely broken down. Not quite sure how I'll build it to still be fun with the risk, the drawbacks can't be character breaking, else people will never want it, but they have to be meaningful too, so the balance will take some work there. 

The techniques are remaining as they were, they're super simple. Stick a seal on. Stop someone dying when using pills, they're ripped right from cannon and do what they did there. The mind awakening pills too.

 

 

The rough idea I am thinking of now is adding another technique to the foundational techniques, which would be the Evil Sealing Method, which would stop your Monster Within from gaining ranks, unless you choose to let it go further. It would be limited to fairly low ranks, so if you want the basics of the cursed seal, you can take them, but the real power comes with the risk. 

I am tossing about the idea of two separate paths into the AS, an attempt to control it, or unleashing all its power. I think this would also be pegged to ranks in Monster Within, as to what options were available to you. 

So I am going to do my level best to replicate the battle with the evil of the seal through this evolving skill you have no direct control over. 

I still want it to remain doing what we saw it do in the series, increase your chakra and your power. Though with our system, it makes the most sense to go Cha/Nin, Cha/Gen, Sta/Tai. It should increase your resources, pump up your regen, because that's what it did, Sasuke drew on it when he had no chakra left against Itachi, because he knew it had the resources he needed.

I am wary of too closely stepping on the toes of senjutsu's best at everything design space, while the cursed seal was based off senjutsu, it came from a place of Orochimaru being bad at it, so I feel the division in offences remains a natural state for it. But, hopefully, this shift in dynamic lines up with what you're feeling, and helps us reach a communally acceptable direction.

 

[Princess]

Okay, it's done.

This is a hybridisation of my idea for the Cursed Seal and KC's idea for the Cursed Seal of Heaven. There was specific elements he wanted represented, which I have adapted here, as well as the stuff I wanted.

So, overall, it functions like this:
-Another character or NPC must use Juinjutsu on you, which makes them important later on.
-With Juinjutsu, you gain a 0 cost skill Cursed Seal, which prevents you removing Cursed Seal skills easily.
-Then you can buy the Stage 0 cursed seal. This sets the precedent for all that follows.
-The Cursed Seal grows stronger as you use it, with each attempted activation giving you 'Corruption', a skill that does nothing itself, but is essentially used as markers for the CS to know how much stats and the like to give you.
-Advancement rolls enable you to jump up to the next level. Stage 0-1 isn't too hard, stage 1-2 is rather difficult, but I will make the pills/four pillars technique to make it easier if you're going along with the person who gave it to you.

-You get natural energy as a tank, which can pay for costs in skills and techniques that explicitly allow it. It CANNOT substitute for regular costs, it is only used for things that specifically call it out, as it's bad senjutsu not the real deal.

-You get some defensive abilities vs every type that combine as you rank up.
-Stats go all across the board, so you end up with a huge amount of stats on paper, but it won't show as super big except maybe in the case of hybrids/triple hybrids. May need to fix that.

-Apotheosis is cool, it's the mutation skill. I like it. Want it to stay that way.

Now, KC's biggest request was that it not be an advanced system, allowing you to do what everyone with it did and combine your bloodline and cursed seal together. It's written as such, would rock as such, but it's ground I am willing to give if I have to. I am aware the potential scaling for that is silly.

Please jump on this :)

[Sol Pope]

First of all, I think this is really cool. I like the progression and the flavor. I haven’t had the chance to really dig into the numbers yet due to time constraints at work, but I had a couple comments so I figured I’d throw them here.

 

First, with Unholy Resistance I am straight up not getting how that is working. “-5x stat reduction from gen attacks, where x is = to ninja rank for every 5 ranks of corruption they possess.”

 

Assuming you’re a jonin with say, 10 ranks in corruption out of the max 15. Your X would be 3 (equal to your ninja rank) times 2 (for every 5 ranks of corruption which in this example is 10), so 6. And then 5*6 = -30 stat reduction. That’s how I’m reading this skill so I don’t understand where the “rounding down, to a maximum of -10x” bit is coming in. What is modifying the 5? I’ve stared at it for a while and I just can’t figure it out and I feel that because of this the skill should probably get a re-wording to make it easier to understand.

 

Never mind it finally clicked, but I still think it could be made less obtuse.

 

And to address what I think is the obvious thing, I really don’t see why this isn’t an Advanced System. I can understand the desire to keep this within canon flavor but I don’t personally think it’s a good enough reason to skirt the “may not have two advanced systems active at once” rule.

Edited February 24, 2021 by Sol Pope

[Princess]

Unholy Resistance: It's basically designed to be Iron Skin/Resistance but for stat drops. Worded like they are. Glad it makes sense now, open to wording changes if you feel it's needed.

 

Not Being an Advanced System: Okay, so as it wasn't my idea to make it not an AS, I decided that instead, why don't I make it an AS, but then allow you to burn a tonne of SP (so probably something you'd wait until 120 to achieve) to allow you to layer it over an existing AS?

So let's look at this cost wise.

For the full Cursed Seal Experience, you're looking at a 22SP investment, which is significant. Stage 1 ends up costing you either 7.5% Chakra & 2.5% Stamina, 7.5% Stamina & 2.5% Chakra or 5% Chakra and Stamina per turn, your choice. Stage 2 ends up costing you 5% Health, Chakra and Stamina per turn. They can do all kinds of nifty stuff.

Now, we look at the Union Skills, which allow you to layer the Cursed Seal over an existing AS (I explicitly excluded Sennika and Sage Mode because it's all kinda the same source and I didn't want to deal with nonsense). For an additional 5% Total Health, 2.5% Chakra an Stamina per turn on top of the existing cost of your existing advanced system and 6 SP, you can nab the non-stat bonuses of Cursed Seal Stage 1. So that brings you up to a total of 28SP+whatever your base AS costs. If you then want to go for stage 2 activation during your chosen AS, you're looking at an additional 8SP and 9% Health, 5% Chakra and 5% Stamina per turn. So the cost to have full Cursed Seal Stage 2 active during another AS is 36 SP+the base AS. Curse Seal doesn't nix your advanced regen because the whole idea was to give you extra energy to fight with, but layering it over another AS means you're likely having advanced regen cut. So with stage 2 layered over, your base regen becomes 0, then you lose what the other AS takes as well as a big chunk of health each turn, AND it eats up your Cursed Seal activation. 

So, can it be done? Hell yes. Probably not till very late in the game, but it's doable. It will be insanely powerful when you can do it, but the cost for it is incredibly high, as dual running powerful systems should be, and you don't get to double up on stats. Moreover, you cannot pick and choose which benefits you want from the CS when you do this, it's all or nothing and you take them in order, so the Nightmarish skills, which are the ones that pump damage, require the maximum SP and upkeep cost investment before they are accessible. I think this is the best way to keep KC's vision alive, but also bring it into balance with the rest of the game. CS2 Sharingan is your capstone. Earn it kids. I believe in you. Also myself. 

 

The Cost: I tweaked this one, it was located in Cursed Seal Stage 2 because that's when you get it, but as written you only paid the price of your weakness. Nope. It's always on once you hit CS2 now. Eat that Immortality Skill. 

[Cellar Door]

 

There has got to be a better term that we can use beside Faustian. It'd be like making an item and calling it Greek Fire. With that said, I'll get a real review out at some point. I'll probably have a lot of notes.

"Why not an advanced system?": So, that's really, really, really incredibly simple. Because everything else about it is shitty. The only thing people really think is cool about it is that Sasuke used it (All things considered, basically everyone used bloodlines and specialized jutsu in concert with their cursed seals. Except Jirobo. rip.) You can die just from getting it. You can be body-snatched by some asshole, who probably only gave it to you so that he could body-snatch your cool bloodline. You become a monster. You can die from using it. Your monster transformation invariably looks dumb. I could really keep going, but the bottom line is really like:

We've allowed the idea of mixed advanced systems before. The idea of a Sage Mode/Eight Gates hybrid is something that could theoretically exist. The real trick here is coming up with abilities that exist on an axis that are horizontal to what Advanced Systems usually give, because fuckin' A if you want a cursed seal advanced system... have Juugo's bloodline. That's literally exactly what it is.

[Sol Pope]

I like the idea of the union skills a lot more than it not being an advanced system baseline. Still not 100% sold on the idea but that IS a massive investment and I’d be hard pressed to think of something else right now that would work better imo. Today is my Friday so I should have some time this weekend to really dig into the numbers. To address your points, KC,

 

You can die just from getting it. 

Unless you take it at a sufficiently high level. Also this is a reason I strongly feel that the juinjutsu that afflicts it should 100% be locked to NPCs. A dice roll insta-kill move isn’t something I think should be in the hands of players at all.

 

Besides, giving a system a restriction of “this is a death roll to get” isn’t a sufficient reason to allow that system to be flatly stronger than others. If that’s the logic, I’d prefer to see the juinjutsu changed. There’s something to be said for honoring canon but I don’t think it is a good reason on its own to allow something through that imo seems overly strong. If Juinka isn’t an AS, and is allowed to layer onto others and approved as such, I feel pretty strongly that it will see one extended combat and then be pulled because it’s too bonkers on top of _____ system.

 

You can die from using it.

That can be said of any skill or jutsu that uses health as a cost

 

You can be body-snatched by some asshole, who probably only gave it to you so that he could body-snatch your cool bloodline.

I kind of feel the same way about this as I do about the “you can die just from getting it” restriction. If the juinjutsu that afflicts it is locked to NPCS (as I believe it should be) this is just a narrative tool to make cool stories. I don’t think realistically anyone would want to take a skill where they just might get body snatched and lose their character.

[Princess]

I do state it should be NPC locked in the foundational techniques thread. I'll own it, so simply not dishing it our to players is very easy. Can make it a mechanical restriction if needed, but that should be discussed over there.

[Cellar Door]

 

I'm gonna break down my review based on the different stages. But I definitely have some over-arching things. I don't love the individual skill names... they all feel kind of off-brand for Naruto. Might just be me. The other big thing is that this is bloated. It looks as large as a lot of clan bloodlines, and there's no way you could get a bloodline and pay the SP for this.  Corruption is an interesting variable. Might be a lot of complexity, but if you really like it, consider using it in the skill ideas below.

So... here is my current thinking.

Level 0 -
-- This needs just one hindrance. It drains 5% of your total Stamina and Chakra every turn. Probably worth +2 SP, maybe +3... and it can be gained after creation. This could maybe also have a rider that says something about how you have a negative modifier on the Living Corpse Reincarnation technique.

[Why? This sure does look like a big deal doesn't it? It is. It basically entirely invalidates regeneration at the base level of play and severely limits the strength of advanced regeneration. Well, this is important to incentivizing the usage of Senjutsu Chakra in the next skill. If someone created this with the design of forcing their mark to use it and become a compatible derp for them to absorb, they would naturally make a reason to activate it. This is that reason. Because your chakra is stunted, you are heavily incentivized to rely on the turn per turn Senjutsu Chakra alottment that you receive while this is active.]

Level 1-
-- Upkeep: 2.5% of your Total Health
-- First skill, you gain 50 Senjutsu Chakra per turn. Senjutsu Chakra can be used to pay for any cost, including techniques that require Senjutsu Chakra. If a technique's entire cost is paid for with Senjutsu Chakra, that technique receives a buff to damage/effect. Your call on the scope.
-- Second skill, a dual phase skill. If you don't have an advanced system, you gain +2x stats that can be distributed anywhere you want. IF YOU DO HAVE ONE ACTIVE, you don't gain stats, but can redistribute some of your bonuses gained from the active advanced system, to a maximum of the amount you would gain if you didn't have an Advanced System.

[Why? I want Cursed Seals to be a way to make Senjutsu techniques more prevalent, and since the majority of the game is dominated by clans who use their own advanced systems, Sage Mode will always be the fringe. This is a canonical way to facilitate that. The free bonus and moveable stats also creates the idea of customizable monstrous forms, and helps each player do unique stuff with their individual curse seal.]

Level 2 -
-- Upkeep: 5% of your Total Health
-- First skill, Same as above but 150 Senjutsu Chakra per turn.
-- Second skill, Same as above but 4x.
-- Third skill, funky mutations. (I still don't love your names. If you're gonna use monsters, the Earth and Heaven ones feel out of place. The cardinal directions play better with Earth at the center and Heaven above them. HOWEVER, if you prefer monsters, just do... all monster names and the person applying the seal to someone can decide what the cursed seal is named or whatever.)

[Why? I bet this doesn't seem like a real powerful set by itself. Yeah. It's not. The burden of strength is not always on the creation, but on how it is implemented by the player. Being cursed by someone else should by and large be a bad thing that puts you under their control. This is making lemons into lemonade. Like, it makes you a little bit stronger, but remember that it's more dangerous than it is empowering. Literally everyone who used these to buff their power, besides Sasuke, got killed by grade schoolers. So, I think it's safe to say that it takes a dedicated mind to turn this into a legitimate benefit and not a red herring.]

[Princess]

Made changes along the lines of KC's suggestions, which cut down on the length and complexity of the skill significantly. It now is fairly simple. 

Corruption: I do like this as a mechanic, so it is retained. 

Stage 0: Has no mechanical benefits, just drains your chakra and stamina. This is permanent, no effect will ever change that. Grants 3 SP, happy to reduce it to 2, the idea being that 3 SP pays for Stage 1 once you unlock it if you want to save it up for that. 

Stage 1: So, has two parts. Part 1 grants you [Senjutsu Chakra] as a new tank stat permanently. Once you gain it, you never lose that stat and its value persists. Then, while stage 1 is active, you gain 50 per turn and can spend it for costs as KC requested. The damage increase is applied to base, breaks caps, and goes up to 15% (1 per corruption). Happy to lower that cap if required. Additionally, you get the variable stat modifier skill. 

So, you either gain 2X stats, or 2.5X if you have a lot of corruption. 
Or, if you have an advanced system, you can change 2X stats it grants. If that advanced system would grant less than 2X stats, you gain 1X stats, as long as it doesn't exceed 2X. So it means if your advanced system grants no stats, you're getting X. If for whatever reason it grants less than 2X (cannot think of any that grant more than X but less than 2X) you gain the difference. 

So the cursed seal, when corrupted, is stronger if you don't have an advanced system, but combined with an advanced system has access to more power so balances out.

There also remains access to Mastery. So if you get highly corrupted with stage 2, you can reach the level of stage 1 mastery Sasuke had, where it doesn't really faze him at all. So the cost is changed from Health to Chakra, Stamina or both (remembering you are always losing 5% Chakra/Stamina, so it increases that reduction) and no longer grants corruption. It can be activated as much as you want, and can make swapping into stage 2 a free action. 

Stage 2: Apotheosis remains the mutation skill, changed names to the directions as KC suggested. Tweaked the abilities a little to no longer be reliant on a skill that no longer exists.

Senjutsu and Infusion are exactly the same but with greater values as KC suggested. There is no way to master stage 2, it will always cost health.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Princess