Vitality of Nature

[PandaMattMatt]

 

Vitality of Nature
Description; The Hanamajo have worked with plants since before they were even a true clan. Secrets have been passed down from generation to generation and even civilian Hanamajo have a gift for plant nature chakra. With every generation growing and compounding the vivid energy of nature and plants before passing it to the next, it is no wonder that the Hanamajo themselves are blessed by the bountiful energy of nature.

Effect: Increase this character's Total Chakra Regeneration by +2.5% per rank in this skill. This may stack with Chakra Flow and is considered Advanced Regeneration. This skill may only be taken once every 30 levels.
Restriction: Hanamajo Clan [Hereditary]

Ranks: 2

Cost: -2 s

Edited October 1, 2017 by PandaMattMatt

[PandaMattMatt]

Ok, I think this and Seed Tender are the last skills I will make for the entire Hanamajo clan. From here on out, all skills will be on a character by character basis and will not be considered "clan skills". 

 

That being said, here is the 1 Hereditary skill for the Hanamajo. It increases base regen by 1% per rank for a max of 5%. Yes, this does stack with Advanced Regen, which means a Hanamajo with this skill and Chakra Flow Rank 2, will have +20% regeneration every turn. No this is not advanced regeneration, which means if for some reason a Hanamajo with this skill takes an Advanced System, their base chakra regen will be 10% rather than 5%.

 

The second skill on this one kind of piggy backs off the first. You can add 2 subtle elements to a plant technique, so every plant element technique will grant +8 block range as well as -10% total cost. 

 

There might the question of "What do the Hanamajo already do?" to kind of make sure they aren't getting too much power, so I'll link to their skills here too.

 

Green Thumb: Early Access to Plant Element
Horticulturalist: -1 jp on Plant techniques

Mastery of Nature's Duality: Malevolence: +Poison Damage

Mastery of Nature's Duality: Benevolence: +Induced Regen

Flower Walker: Immunity to Wildflower terrain

Seed Tender: Overall Unique Mechanic for Hanamajo

 

The Duality skills will likely need to be resubmitted as the clause of "Cannot be taught" was added before the advent of Hereditary Skills. However, you now see the full extent of the Hanamajo Clan Skills. yay! 

[Pwnzie]

Im not sure if I am ok with +5% BASE chakra regen for 5 SP, level req or not. Your 'clan' already has so many different forms of uility and abilities, induced regen, seed thing, immunity to terrains, Im not sure why additional base chakra regen needs to be added into the mix. You even mentioned the 20% regen issue, thats definitely a concern, what makes the hanajomo so special that they are able to regenerate chakra better than every other person on the planet? 

 

The base aspect of it just continues to bother me too....

[PandaMattMatt]

So,  I'd like to point out that the only unique clan skill that the Hanamajo have is the Seed mechanic. Other than that, the other skills are something any character can make for their character.

 

Early Access to Plant: Kind of the most common skill for this kind of thing.

-1 jp to a specific type of jutsu is not restricted to clans. It can be done by anyone willing to pay the sp.

+Poison/Induced Regen, this is something the Uchiha have actually, on top of their bloodline. So, clearly not something being given special circumstance.

Immunity to Terrain is literally a main site ability and anyone who makes a custom terrain can also make a skill to be immune to that terrain.

Seed mechanic, as I said, definitely unique to the Hanamajo.

 

So, considering the fact that nearly all "Hanamajo" skills are generally available to anyone,  but with a flowery flavor, it shouldn't be too hard to set those aside as "standard" skills rather than "Special consideration"

 

As for why, because it's unique design space as far as NA goes. Secondly, the Hanamajo, whether they are Ninjutsu offensive, Medics, Genjutsu specialists or hybrids all have 1 thing in common. I made this skill to benefit a Hanamajo no matter what build they take based on that common thread. Chakra.

 

Also, as it's been introduced, Hereditary skills are supposed to be more powerful than standard skills, which is why this is BASE regen. Granted, if Junsei wants that sweet sweet 20% Regen, he'll have to spend 15 sp. 15! That's right on par with the expenditure of most bloodlines.

[Kouta]

The reason I'd rather see this not be base is because with an AS, you eliminate the cost aspect of it. The point of giving an AS a % upkeep is so that you cant keep it up forever. % upkeeps usually negate your natural regen so that if the battle stretches on you will eventually have to turn them off. This is also why Advanced Regen and Activated AS usually do not mix, unless the bonuses are low enough or the costs are high enough to offset that fact. The problem here becomes any Hanamajo who takes an AS will never have to worry about it. They'll get to use the AS and still get their full chakra Regen, meaning they can hold any AS open eternally.

I'd suggest:

Put it at -4 (two ranks) and 5%, make it Advanced Regen that stacks with Chakra flow. That's still stupid powerful. You will still regen more than anyone in the game, and since medics basically only die when their chakra is depleted, you make yourself damn near unkillable.

Keep it at -5 but make it end at 2.5% (.5% per rank), Base Regen. This way your base becomes 7.5% per turn, which is still a stupid high boost (1.5x normal base regen) but your Regen does take a hit if you turn on an AS. That settles most concerns about Infinite AS because you still net lose some of your regen.

Or, give it a slightly different mechanic, and say "When determining how much Chakra is regenerated in a turn, consider this character's maximum chakra to be X higher than it actually is" and kind of cheese Regen by tricking it into thinking you have more chakra. You'll have to find a happy math middle ground yourself. This will increase your chakra regen without actually increasing the percentage.

[PandaMattMatt]

Your first suggestion is pretty darn reasonable and if I absolutely must, I'll follow that one, however, I'm going to keep trying for this to be base.

 

I know that this is really strong, but that is probably why I'm a little hesitant to just switch to advanced regen, which you and Pwnzie are being very fair in suggesting such a change. I'm being a little stubborn just cause of a conversation I had with Tony before submitting this skill. Granted, opinions change and not everyone agrees, but I don't think this necessarily HAS to be Advanced regen.

 

A screen shot of the conversation is below.

 

[Yurane]

5 SP for completely negating the drawback of 90% of Advanced Systems (that using them effectively prevents regeneration) is such an overwhelmingly powerful game changer that you would have to be really, really bad at the game to not want to take regardless of your build. If you absolutely want to keep the mechanics as is, I'd personally be a little more okay with it if it was 2SP per rank instead. Paying 5SP for 10% natural regen that's always on when it's 5SP for 10% advanced regen that turns off with most advanced systems is just... a little much to ask?

 

On the other hand, you'd have to spend 20SP to absolutely cap out (advanced) regeneration at 20%, which is a pretty steep price worthy of an advanced system/bloodline in it's own right...

Edited September 25, 2017 by Yurane

[PandaMattMatt]

Yeah, you're all right. I've gone ahead and made this Advanced regen, I edited in a line that explicitly stated that this is considered Advanced Regen and may stack with Chakra Flow since Chakra flow itself says it cannot have any other skills that affect chakra regen. Also, I did as Kouta suggested and brought the ranks down to 2 and the effect up to 2.5% per rank. So, still 5% advanced regen, but 1 sp less for being Advanced.

[Kouta]

Regen skill looks good to be Approved.

Force of Nature: I'd rather not see this, just because double subtles is the purview of Path of the Elementalist and you're kinda encroaching on its design space. A Hanamajo who took Path of the Elementalist would lose flavor and negate the best ability from that Path. Not every Hanamajo is going to be a Medic, and so you should not kill Path Choices for other potential characters.

[PandaMattMatt]

I disagree with you. While Elementalist does in fact allow you to add 2 subtle element bonuses when using a Combi element, this only allows you to add Water and Earth to ONLY Plant techniques. If Hanamajo became an elementalist, they could and should, use a variety of combi elements and still use that mastery option. Secondly, a Hanamajo Elementalist would never take this skill. Why would they when they can choose it as a path mastery for no additional sp. This is costing finite resources as well as limiting to a very specific instance, which yes, a whole kit can be made from, but in no way forces a Hanamajo to be a medic, nor does it reduces what an Elementalist can do.

 

I would definitely like to see how adding both Earth and Water subtle bonuses to a Plant technique in any way forces a character to be a medic, or in that case, not be anything else? In fact, This works with literally every build that includes Combinatorial; Plant. Of course, Taijutsu and Weapon focus Hanamajo would not benefit from this without some kind of Hybrid-ing, but I really do not see how this is "killing" path choices. If you meant that taking this skill kills the option to be an Elementalist... well, I've pretty clearly outlined above why that isn't the case.

 

Elementalists get versatility and don't have to spend SP as an option. If a Hanamajo wants to be an Elementalist AND buy this... they're not playing the game the right way. If a Defender wants this, great, they max out on Block Range and get some cheaper ninjutsu techs. Which works for... literally everyone. I see this skill as exactly what a Clan skill should be, in that it allows the freedom to build any way you want.

[Cellar Door]

The second one needs more requirements. I also think it should be something that requires whole ham Planty-ness. I'm thinking "Requirements: Water Specialty, Earth Specialty, Hanamajo Clan"

That makes it something a true master of the clan can do, and not something that some little novice can pull off, and it doesn't make it feel like you're a chump-shit for taking Elementalist, since the Hanamajo one comes into play for the final third of the of game and not after the first the 20%.

[PandaMattMatt]

The Elemental Specialty Requirements don't really work for me. Having a 2 in 5 chance of maybe meeting the requirements to use is... not my cup of tea, Especially since Junsei is Earth and Fire as his specialties haha No shame. So, for now I've removed Force of Nature. It may not need to exist at all. The Hanamajo don't necessarily need more skills right now. So... meh. The Vitality of Nature is really the only one that actually matters to me. 

[Kouta]

approved vitality of chakra flow

[wolfnin]

I'm cool with this, also fine since it's a hereditary skill 

 

Approved.