The Speed Force

[Kouta]

The Speed Force



速度強
 

"Long have the Sokudo been dangers to themselves and to others. Our speed, while impressive, had no limiter, no escape from the excess energies which threatened to pull our bodies apart. The experimentation at the hands of Lead Researcher Lynx only exacerbated this problem, turning our natural gifts into a death sentence for our kind. But The Sokudo have evolved. No more do we risk destruction while we run. It has come in the form of a lightning bolt. It has freed us. Watch us run now."
Sokudo Han, First of the Speed Force

The Speed Force, the name granted to the evolved form of the Sokudo's Bloodline, is a marvelous feat. The Sokudo have always maintained the genetic modification to produce limitless adrenaline, causing their muscles to never grow tired as they ran. This ability was similar to always having one the Celestial Gates open, as their body would repair itself and function at amazing speeds. In addition, experimentation during the reign of the NCIA increased the rate of this production tenfold, causing the Sokudo to achieve blinding speeds on command, but to also hurt themselves in the process. Their bodies built up too much force, too much friction, and as a result they would burst into flame and die.

Until Sokudo Han.

Han had always believed the Sokudo proverb, "Nature creates nothing that does not have a chance to survive." He tried, again and again, to achieve the impossible speeds that were given to him without bursting into flame. Each time he failed. Yet one day, in a moment of dire need, as he ran for his life from the very people who experimented upon him, Han was struck by a lightning bolt. More correctly, Han created a lightning bolt. The friction in his body reacted with something in the air, causing a massive discharge of electric energy so profound, that a bolt of ground lightning leapt up from his body into the air.

Sokudo after Sokudo found that once they discharged the excess energy in their body, their bodies were changed, catalyzed into a new form. They could draw in static electricity around them and burn this energy, dubbed the "Speed Force" in order to achieve their outrageous speeds safely. The electrical energy would spark out and away from them, venting their dangerous forces into the air harmlessly.

Speed Force Costs

Activation: "Sokudo Tsuyo" is an Advanced System, costs 5% Total Chakra and Stamina to Activate, and 5% Total Chakra and Stamina to Upkeep.

 

Speed Force; Run | 走る
The Sokudo are masters of running. By Harnessing the Speed Force, Sokudo Clan members can run at speeds hitherto unknown to humankind. Their speed seemingly has no limit, as they grow faster the more they run. With the advent of the speed force, they only seem to have grown stronger, harnessing outside forces to increase their potential.

 

Effect: While the Speed Force is Activated, the user will gain 1x Speed per Rank in this skill, where x is equal to the character’s Level.
RP Effect: The user effectively has super-speed. They may move faster than a normal ninja, often leaving only a colorful blur, a faint trail of lightning, and a rush of wind to indicate they went anywhere at all.

Restrictions: Ranks in this skill may be purchased once every 20 Levels.

Ranks: 5
Cost: -1 per Rank

Speed Force; Flash | 閃光
Sometimes, when a member of the Sokudo is in grave peril, they can draw in additional static energy from the world around them, expelling it in a bright flash of light, often accompanied by a thunderclap. Doing so grants them incredible speed for a single moment, but also greatly taxes the body. Performing too many Flashes in a short period time will often cause advanced deterioration of muscles and tenketsu in the body from forcibly expelling so much energy at one time

 

Effect: Using Flash is a Set-Up Phase Action. The user may spend up to 2x% of their total Chakra and Stamina, where x is equal to their rank in “Speed Force; Run”. For every 2% of a ninja’s total Chakra and Stamina spent on this ability, treat “Speed Force; Run” as if it had 1 additional Rank. Ranks added by this ability last for 1 Turn. On any turn where a ninja uses "Flash" the cap for raising the Speed stat increases to 2x the base stat. “Flash” has a number of uses per battle equal to the user's ninja rank (Genin; 1, Chunnin; 2, etc.). A ninja may choose to activate "Flash" even if no uses remain. If "Flash" is used beyond its maximum, all Chakra and Stamina costs are increased by 10y% for the rest of the battle, where y is equal to the number of times they have used Flash beyond it's maximum.
Requirements: Sokudo Clan, Run Rank 1
Cost: -5

Speed Force Masteries
As a Sokudo continues to run, their body will continue to adapt to its new form, finding more efficient ways of discharging the electrical imuplses while retaining some of that speed and power. They will discover, mostly on their own, the most effective paths to run to any destination.

 

Farther! | 遠く

Description: A speedster's ability to run is usually only outmatched by his desire to do so. Making excellent couriers, users of the Speed Force can zip from point A to point B hundreds of times faster than a normal ninja.
Effect: When traveling, the user subtracts 100x Words from Travel posts, where x is equal to the number of ranks in "Speed Force; Run", to a minimum of 20% of the total required words. In addition, Missing-Nin Visibility posts are only 500 words long for this character.
Requirements: Sokudo Clan, Speed Force; Run Rank 1
Cost: -1

 

Better! | 優利

Description: Ninja who are adept at releasing the lightning energy built up in their body can also direct where and how that energy discharges. With practice, some of that energy can be siphoned off to the brain, where shocks stimulate the nervous pathways and enhance a Sokudo's ability to respond to danger.
Effect: When this ninja increases their Speed through a jutsu effect while Speed Force is active, they may modify that Speed Bonus using their Genjutsu at a ratio of 40:5. This ability may only activate x times per turn, where x is the number of Main Phase Actions the user has during that turn.
Requirements: Sokudo Clan, Speed Force, Run Rank 2
Cost: -3

 

Faster! | 早く

Description: The original trait that made the Sokudo special was their ability to send endless amounts of adrenaline to their legs. This meant they could run faster for longer periods of time. A sudden burst of speed for a normal ninja becomes a lengthy sprint for a Sokudo.
Effect: While Speed Force is active, "Haste" now increases this ninja's Speed by 20%.
Requirements: Sokudo Clan, Speed Force; Run Rank 3
Cost: -2

 

Friction! | 摩擦

Description: Moving fast usually entails high friction, and as a speedster's fist collides with an enemy, that friction is often translated as a burn. When the user flares their speed, this friction explodes into something truly dangerous as their speed reaches godly proportions.
Effect: On any turn that the user activates “Flash”, all of the user's Attacks that turn will inflict 3x% of their Total Damage as additional Burn Damage, where x is equal to the number of rank the user has in “Run”.
Requirements: Sokudo Clan, Speed Force; Run Rank 4, Speed Force; Flash Rank 1
Cost: -3

 

Inertia! | 慣性

Description: An object in motion remains in motion. Enemies who attempt to slow or trap a speedster often find that once their opponent begins to run, few things short of a mack truck can stop their forward progress.
Effect: Reductions to this character's Speed now only apply to the character's Base Stat, instead of Total Stat. In addition, any stat reductions to Speed or Status Effects that reduce Speed have their duration reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1.
Requirements: Sokudo Clan, Speed Force; Run Rank 5
Cost: -5

Edited November 1, 2017 by Kouta

[Kouta]

Designer's Notes: I'm reposting the bloodline after it's subsequent drag back after Chunnin Exams rather than deal with a long thread of arguments, approvals, then unapprovals, then more arguments. Cleaner this way.

Changes that have been made:
-- Now an Advanced System. Still Passive.
-- Removed the Evasion Boost Branch of the bloodline, and converted one of the mastery skills into a full on Branch of the Bloodline, Momentum!. I figured we had enough stats going up and Evasion was kind of clunkily just tacked on. Momentum scales with Speed, as it should, and feels more comfortable as a core bloodline branch than as a one off skill.
-- Replaced two mastery skills "Attack Everyone!" and "Momentum!" with "Farther!" and "Friction!"
-- Changed "Faster!" to give it a buff to Haste as well as a turn duration. Upped its SP-age.
-- Changed "Inertia" to two ranks, allowing you to gain its benefits for Evasion and Speed, primarily because the number of statuses that effect Speed and Evasion directly have gone way down, I felt like it was no longer worth the SP you spent on it.

[Kouta]

Bumping this, because time.

[Cellar Door]

Run: Denied. Rider benefits to jutsu always tend to skirt the line of what is acceptable and what isn't. This however just blows the doors off. +1 to Speed for 4 turns for 1 Chakra becomes +481 to Speed for 4 turns for 1 Chakra. That can be added to basically any technique you make for the clan.

Momentum: Approved. I don't care about this. It's decent. Probably worth what you pay, but not concerning to me from a balance perspective.

Faster: I would prefer this be something you receive closer to the capstone of the bloodline, not something you get as a Genin. As a Jonin, this would be more acceptable.

Better: Upkeeps probably aren't going to be around much longer, and getting a huge reduction on something that already currently gets a cost reduction for no reason seems like something that's stepping over the line of balance.

Farther: Sure.

Friction: This will do a fair amount of damage because of Momentum's boost. I'm thinking -3 here, since it shouldn't be linear with Fire, and could actually stack with it. 

Intertia: So, for Speed, this should cost -4, probably. Evasion, I almost don't care about (-2). It's not the focus of the bloodline and usually reducing the base on it will be pretty close to reducing the total, but for Speed, you're guarding yourself for debuff durations, and because the way this bloodline is optimized you'll want to actually have a fairly low base to begin with. Getting tagged with a debuff will affect the maximum cap you can boost for a bit, but you also probably won't be functioning at the cap most of the battle. 

 

[Kouta]

Run is literally the entire purpose of the Bloodline. To build a character who capitalizes on small buffs becoming bigger buffs. How would we suggest that translate? I wanted a mechanic that was more fun to play than "+1200 Speed please" and had more chances for interplay/counters/etc. This type of "buff for more buffs" seemed like fun, and actually was very fun to play in practice. I liked the idea of a perpetual motion machine. That you upkeep it here and there

 

In the previous topic here Tony and I were discussing that the principle was sound we were just rolling out numbers.

 

Things change yada yada so the concept may not work exactly anymore, but I don't think that taking the +1200 an AS can normally achieve and spreading it out across several jutsu is "broken" in any respect. And then its more work than simply saying "turn on turn 1 +1200 please". Also, Speed is the one stat in the game where that slight mechanic change can actually make a drastic impact (not achieving max speed boost for 4 turns will change how many extra actions you ultimately receive), and the bloodline is hyper focused on Speed and nothing else. We were debating a potential slight increase to normal 1200 stats for difficulty & focus as opposed to just being able to turn on 1200 stats.

 

TL;DR: I could make a boring bloodline that says "gimme 1200 stats", but I'd rather make a fun one that has the same/possibly slightly bigger dividends for the trouble I go through. If this current setup is fine to do that, lets talk numbers. IF it's not, what do you suggest?

[Kouta]

Bloodline has been overhauled with a whole new theme/idea in mind.

"Speed Force" is now an Activated AS, which costs 10% Total Tank (5% Chk, 5% Stm) to activate and 5% Total Tank (2.5% Chk, 2.5% Stm) to upkeep.
 

"Speed Force; Run" now grants a Max of 5x Speed Based on Level. It still provides raising on the Cap for Speed, because boosting is still on the table, but it caps now at 2x Total Stat (same as the Gates). That is why I made each rank -2. -1 for the Speed Boost, -1 for raising the stat cap. This means Run maxes out at only 600 Total Stat points in benefit. This is on purpose, because Speed Force does NOT limit Advanced Regen. I figured half of an AS bonus was a trade we could agree on. Also you'll see why Advanced Regen is kept in mind in the build of the next ability.

 

"Speed Force; Flash" replaces the previous +damage branch of Speed Force. The AS is focusing solely on speed, with the exception of a single mastery skill we'll get to later. Flash is the fun, gimmicky mechanic I like for this iteration of the Bloodline. Simply put: By Spending additional Total Tank (some % of chakra and stamina) you can increase the number of Effective Ranks you have in "Speed Force; Run" for a SINGLE TURN. This can, at its height, allow Speed Force; Run to achieve 10x Speed, which is 1200 and is the standard limit on AS stat boosts. This is part of why I still raised the Cap on Speed Boosting, because the AS is shifting to this activated, bolt of lightning massive speed for one turn kind of strat. Also note, that in order to use this ability at full power will cost 20% Total Tank (10% Chk, 10% Stm), and that you cannot reach full power until you max out the AS, since it scales with Run, which also Scales with Level.

At a suggestion from Tony, I wanted to add some mechanic that lets a user "surpass their limits" so rather than just put a hard cap on Flashes per battle, I have a cap on "safe" flashes per battle, which scale with ninja rank. But if you need to, or if in RP flavor you wanna push yourself, you can use additional Flashes, but you will get hit with a durationless, cumulative, stacking exhausted. Each Flash will inflict two turns to you. So the Second Unsafe Flash is 4 Turns. The Third Unsafe Flash is 6 Turns, etc. And the enemy can throw a full exhausted on top of that, and they stack, so the enemy can counterplay with their own Exhausted and can potentially have you spending 40% extra chakra and stamina for 3 turns. So its a high risk high reward kind of scenario. I price this at a single rank for -4. That seemed fair.

 

Then there are a number of Masteries which we've seen in one form or another, just tweaked to accept this new AS. Again, these masteries are focusing almost entirely on Speed, since I wanted to narrow the purview of the AS to give it extra focus. Each Rank of "Speed Force; Run" unlocks a single new Mastery, and they increase in good-ness as you advance through the bloodline.

 

Farther now scales with your ranks in Run, and since it is out of battle, cannot combo with Flash. It ends up being just as strong as Path of the Scout's Travel-reduction, and is mostly flavor, so I left it at -1.

 

Better allows you to mod your Speed Boosts (remember I still raised that Cap earlier) starting with an abysmal 40:1 ratio and slowly working up to a 40:5 ratio, which is half of the stat subtraction ratio, and is on par with the stat boosting power granted by Path of the Harmonious, only it is hyper focused exclusively to Speed. I granted this a -3 because its strong. Now, the amazing play here is that, with a max potency Flash, this Ratio becomes 40:10, which is 20:5, the normal stat subtraction ratio. I think this is an awesome flavor play, because you can either spend your Flash turn dealing damage, or use it to set you up for more double turns down the road with a huuuuuge modified speed buff. I placed this at Rank 2 because it scales with your character so it starts utterly weak, whereas the next ability is just good all the time.

 

Faster is the exact same from its previous form, only I added language to clarify that it only applies to yourself. You can't super haste your teammates or anything like. I raised its price to -3 and required Rank 3 of the bloodline instead of Rank 1.

 

Friction is stronk. it is the only damage dealing part of the entire AS, and the only part that doesn't directly focus on Speed. I'm willing to play with numbers and pricing, but I want this to be kind of the hailmary big hitter part of the bloodline, so work with me. Essentially, when you Flash, and only when you flash, your techniques all gain burn damage. A lot of burn damage, to a maximum of 30% Total. Note this means you have a limited number of Burn Turns per battle, and with the buff skill, you might be looking to buff yourself instead of punch, so I'm adding competing loyalties so the choice isnt always just "punch harder". I stuck it at -3 because stronk.

 

Inertia is the same as before, only I stripped Evasion from it, because I realized I was dumb. Blanket effect duration reduction towards Speed and stopping you from touching my buffed Speed is stronk. -4 per KC suggestion, made it the capstone mastery of the bloodline.

[Pwnzie]

Are there any other examples other than the gates where even an activated AS was allowed to go 2x base stat? I thought Jinchuriki were the only ones other than gates that were allowed to bypass that rule.... As for half the usual stats for no advanced regen, I would be more comfortable with halved advanced regen since you get half the activated benefit. 

 

I dont like that with the next ability Flash, you add basically another 4 ranks of run, even at -4, you're basically at the full activated advanced system stat limit by now (bit over similar to Ox Tiger Blessing was a bad example) compared to the Uzumaki's 500, Chak/Stm Training's Max 500, or Mokuton's 1000, and neither of those give nearly as many benefits in addition. Even with exhausted, having advanced regen still in addition to potentially 1200 speed doesnt seem like something I would be okay with. With rank 2 chakra flow and having this active, you still gain 10% chakra a turn, where every other activated cost bloodline loses the ability to get that extra 10% chakra regen. 

 

Masteries: 

Farther: Fine 

Better: Why do you get to have 2x base stat? What makes this so special that it deserves being able to surpass the limits of any other AS (canon included)? And since this would normally take up either a setup or main phase action, I think you should lose setup phase with this at the very least. 

Faster: If this was approved letting you break duration caps before, I guess I can live with this. 

Friction: Denied. With how many extra ranks you can add onto flash, and this potentially getting to 8+ stacks, Nope. 

 

Inertia: I can live with -4 for that ability. 

 

Overall; Not sure how I feel about being able to break 2x base stats, and getting advanced regen with this much utility and stat boosting. 

[Kouta]

Bloodlines that are espcially focused generally tend to get a little more wallop for their buck. This bloodline literally makes you Faster, only makes you Faster, and makes your Faster. It is hyper focused on Speed in an extreme capacity, with the exception of a single Mastery skill. Thats why. Its a bloodline whose one and only focus is making you faster. The previous iteration was approved at 2.25x Caps on Speed, and that cap is not why it got pulled back, so I doubt there's actually any problem with it attaining that heightened cap in exchange for its intense focus. Unlike other abilities like the Kaguya, who split focus between health regen, making weapons, and stat boosting. Or the Uchiha who split focus between Piercing Genjutsu, Stat Boosts of several stats, and learning new jutsu, this bloodline has one underline: Getting you more Speed.

 

Now, while that doesn't mean someone cant jump in one post from now and say "We've changed our mind since then, design space of jinchuuriki, etc. etc." I feel like I have more than a passing case as to why lifting the cap on a single stat is passable.

 

--

 

Your second critique honestly doesn't make much sense, if you could elaborate I'd appreciate it. You cited four bloodlines that give permanent stat boosts to their users without being AS or Activated in any way. None of them share even a passing resemblance to this AS. And the reason your examples specifically are weaker is because they can stack with another AS and receive the full benefit of both. This is my Bloodline and my AS, so it can't stack with anything. There's a massive difference there. [Bloodline No Activation no AS] [Bloodline no Activation AS] [Bloodline Activation AS] are kind of the three types of Advanced Systems, with the last being the most powerful, and this being in that bracket.

 

--

As to your complaint about AS + Regen. This bloodline doesn't have +1200 all the time. I has 4 turns (of the entire battle) at max capacity where I can choose to spend 20% of my tank stats (10% in each) on each of those turns to reach that +1200 (thats 40% of each or 80% in tank stats). That number is HUGE. The rest of the fight its just +600. You know the funny thing about spending 20% of my tank stats in order to activate the ability? It means the turns in which I actually achieve that full +1200...advanced regeneration gets negated. In my complete notes in the post right above yours I say I built the ability with Advanced Regen in mind. I wasn't lying. I built a cost that would wipe out my Advanced Regen on any turn I activate Flash. So that for any turn I attain the full power of an AS, I do not get the benefit of my Advanced Regen. And if I only have Chakra Flow or if I only have Intestinal Fortitude, the remaining Tank still loses the full amount. So, in order to achieve the "full power" of an AS, for only 4 turns per battle, I'm spending an extra 40% of my Total Chakra and 40% of my Total Stamina. And IF I choose to push beyond then, the system then punishes me with an ultra rough Exhausted that will also cut into my advanced regen, taking it away from me for even longer than the single turn I get the benefit for. The cost more than covers the benefit. No other As, Activated or not, has costs that high. Again, the bloodline's focus is a fun play mechanic that gives me similar power to an AS, with some vast restrictions. I could build "Turn on AS, +1200 Speed, have a nice day". I'm building something potentially weaker but more fun with a focus on massive burst turns. The abilities as written are quite balanced I assure you, and factor for Advanced Regen assuming you will have it.

 

--

 

As for the masteries:

In general, these masteries feel Strong, but not Broken. Thats why they all are in the -3 or -4 category. -5 if we need to. I say this multiple times in my Notes post on all the changes. So by and large, I'm willing to play with costs and ratios to make them more palatable, but I shot for what I wanted, what I think best helps me achieve the "More Speed Plox" nature of the bloodline/AS.

 

Better: I think you misunderstand what this does. All it does is say "Hey, you know those Speed buffs you cast through jutsu on yourself you don't normally get to mod? Now you can mod them with this dwarfed ratio using your Genjutsu stat." It doesn't apply my mod to the buffs granted by the bloodline, or create a buff to then mod. It just adds a way for me to get more Speed when I cast a +Speed effect from a jutsu. So I'm unsure where you got the "this would take a main phase or setup phase" because..yea, you'll be activating a technique when this skill triggers. Which means it happens in the main phase.

 

Friction: Again, in my notes on post above yours, I point out both the absolute max benefit of this skill, and intimate a willingness to work on numbers to balance it. So, is there a specific number you dislike? Is it the max potential damage? Is it the skill point spendature? Toss out a number to get the negotiations happening, don't just shut down a "no" with no discussion or suggestion when I've already said I wasnt sure where it landed power-wise. Gaining Burn damage 4 times per battle itself is far from broken. So its just the potency of that damage we gotta look at.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Kouta

[Peregine]

I think not restricting your regen is fine on this. On the turns that you pump to 10X, it costs you 12.5% in both base stats (including the regular upkeep), which means you'll need R2 Stasis Flow (-12SP) to barely come out with a net positive (2.5%) in both stats. Chakra Flow or Intestinal Fortitude are good for one stat, but like Kouta said it tanks the other pretty hard.

 

I can see breaking the 1.5x cap could be a bigger discussion, so in the spirit of cutting the knot I have to ask do you actually need to raise the cap? Even with Flash, 10(Level) speed is still not such a large number that it would break the cap on its own for a speed-based character. Even at Lv120 with +1200 Speed you can sustain that with 2400 Base speed (or 19.2% of your total stat pool), which is not unreasonable for the build that logically follows this bloodline. At lower levels, you need even less speed. I'm not necessarily against raising the cap in this instance, just spitballing.

 

More specific commentary on the other skills;

-Why does Better! key of Genjutsu? The description for the skill names it as a physical ability that gets better with practice. Genjutsu seems like the wrong choice.

-I know it's already intended this way, but Friction! should specify Taijutsu and maybe Weapon Attacks. Doesn't make much sense otherwise.

-Farther! Inertia! and Faster! are fine by me.

[Kouta]

Welp, even at 120 with hypothetical 2400 Speed, this bloodline would cap me at 1.5x for a total of 3600 Speed. Which is pretty respectable Speed wise in the end game but not outrageous. But that means I can't apply Haste because I'm capped. I can't use any of the buffs that come up later in the masteries, because I'm capped. So what it means is that I could use those abilities on non-Flash turns, but that means Flash turns that coincide with my Haste or my Buffs are wasting potential. It causes the Bloodline to Conflict with itself, and makes what should be an awesome burst turn actually become me just trading one buff for a different buff. And while there CAN be some cool counterplay with activating Flash right when my buffs fall off in order to buy me time to get them back up, that's not the way I'm trying to build the AS.

 

Now, I'd be more than willing to potentially make the Cap raising a PART OF the Flash ability, so it only jumps up when I Flash, since thats the ability that causes the problem. I'd probably reduce the individual ranks of the Run ability to -1 per rank and increase Flash to -5 then, and cap at 2x Base Stat. Thats a trade I'm reasonably okay with.

 

--

 

"Better!" uses Genjutsu purely for balance reasons, and several of them. 1: Nin and Tai buffing stats boosts is an ability of Path of the Harmonious, and I feel like I would be stepping on toes if I gave that power to my Sokudo as well. 2: You could potentially stack those two abilities (and indeed you would likely take Harmonious in a Nin/Tai build) in order to get a 20:5 ratio for stat buffing, and that seems broken. 3: Buffing is the realm of Genjutsu, and theres even an Archetype for buffing Speed especially, so it felt like systematically it fit. 4: IF you are building a pure nin/tai build, it helps to balance the self buffing by making you put stats in Genjutsu. If you are a Genjutsu fanatic then congrats you get to use this ability really big, but its something Genjutsu is designed to do anyway.

 

The description could be rewritten to make it make more sense for Genjutsu, but system wise I think Genjutsu is the correct choice for balance reasons.

 

"Friction" applies to any attack because it could. Whether you are punching them, using a taijutsu, weaponing them, Rasenganning them, etc. The friction would apply. And if you create an illusion where you punch them, illusory friction would illusory apply. Since this site really doesn't have a concept of "close range" and "long range" I'd rather not include that in my effect line because its subjective. So maybe there's a weird case where a really fast Water Dragon causes Friction burns. Or a really fast Genjutsu mindgrab causes fake friction burns. They are the vast minority of attacks and don't merit being discluded when the majority of attacks can be included.

 

Additionally, since a Genjutsu Buffer IS a potential route for this clan, it didn't feel right to take away the big damage skill from them and eliminate them as a choice in one of the few clans that offer it as a legit choice.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Kouta

[Pwnzie]

Im too tired to write up a full response to this, but I will say this, if thats how it looks right now at the end game, and you make it impossible to use haste or your other buffs, it sounds like youre going a bit overkill with the buffs and +stats. I understand this is a speed bloodline, to get more speed, but just because its a speed bloodline, were supposed to let it bend some pretty major system rules? I run into the same problem with my jinchuriki who gets +800 speed from his cloak, and i pretty much just have to deal with it and plan my hastes at the right time. 

 

What would your numbers look like for end game with only 1,5x? To see a comparison. 

[Kouta]

[ALL THIS MATH ASSUMES THE MASTERY ABOVE THAT INCREASES HASTE TO A 20% EFFECT]

 

So, to make max use of the Flash Ability would require 2400 Base Speed at level 120. Like I said, not bad but not outrageous. I'm sure I can find one or two lvl 120s who have more Speed than that. Then on a full Flash Turn, you would jump to 1.5x, which is 3600 Speed. Again, NOT BAD. Nobody on the site has a Natural Speed that high, but I bet we can find a couple who can augment their Speed that high. Again, as "The Speed Clan" where speed is literally everything they have going for them, I feel like their Speed should hit some point that is kind of outrageous but not totally outrageous. Haste cannot be applied on a Flash turn. Speed Buffs cannot be applied on a Flash turn.

In order to Flash AND Haste, which I feel is kind of like the minimum bar for what I want the clan to be able to do (the additional jutsu-based buffs are really for your non-flash turns):

 

-- WITH ANY Speed higher than 2400 you will see SOME sort of benefit. At 2500 (3700 on a Flash turn) you are guaranteed to hit the cap at 3750 after applying Haste, a mere 150 more than 2400, and only 50 points of which come from Haste. Not worth the investment.
-- This numbers continues to get slightly higher as you invest more into Speed. At 3000 (which is kind of the max you can realistically expect someone to put into Speed without seriously harming their build), Flash gets you to 4200, and Haste WANTS to bring you to 5020, but at 1.5x you only can attain 4500. That is only an increase of 300 points granted from Haste, or 1.07%. Far from Haste's full value.

-- You need minimum 3500 Speed (more than is reasonable to request as a Base Speed, and so this is just for illustrative purposes) to see a serious effect from Haste (but, since Haste scales with Speed, at only 1.5x you will almost never receive the full benefit of haste). 3500 +1200 on a flash turn nets you 4700, and haste WANTS to bring you to 5640, but 1.5x limits you to 5250, which means Haste benefits you to the tune of 550 Points, which is 1.11x, still less than the current value of Haste BEFORE the mastery kicks in.

-- 4000 Speed gets you real close. On a Flash turn you are at 5200, and Haste wants to bring you to 6240, but 1.5x says you only get to 6000. Thats a net bonus of 800 from Haste, which is finally 1.15x, the NORMAL value of Haste.

-- At 4800 Speed you hit the magic number. You can apply 1200 points through Flash, AND apply Haste to reach a maximum Total Speed of 7200 at 1.5x. This is of course an outrageous Base Speed to request of a player's build, since it practically negates all the need for the buffs in the AS through Raw Stats alone, and would destroy utterly any build who attempted to make use of it without SERIOUS CXP spends.

 

HOWEVER, if you increase the Cap to 2x the Base Stat instead of 1.5x the base stat, the minimum Speed necessary to use both a full power Flash AND Haste is:

-- At 1800 Speed, a Speed any respectable Level 120 character should possess, you can gain 1200 Speed from Flash and still apply a 20% Haste to 3600 Exactly.

 

Now, to make you feel nicer about yourself, with 1.92x Base as the cap, you achieve the same Effect at 2000 Speed, which seems more than fair as kind of a "baseline" Speed at 120 to assume a ninja has/can reasonably get. But since 1.92 is both clumsy to write and clumsy to math in neat formulas, 2x seems cleaner all around.

[Tsu]

Can we get a google doc with the values at 1.5x 1.75x and 2.0x. Speed max so we all have a clear matrix to compair.

 

To be fair, I'm alright with the sokudo being able to break 1 stat cap, I just want to see how far past the glass ceiling it really goes. So lets haggle on what's right.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Tsu

[Kouta]

That post contains all those numbers you requested except 1.75x, which hits "The magic number" around 2600 Speed (I say around because at 1.75x and 2600 you lose, like, 10 Speed boost from haste, which is a negligible figure, the actual number is probably like 2650 or something).

 

However, since I really liked the flavor of it, I removed the "Raising the Speed Cap" from "Run" and put it into "Flash" pre-emptively, since the only time I should NEED to break stat caps is when I'm activating Flash (also, it makes Flash resemble like a Shunko from Bleach, where there's this explosion of energy and you get to be godly for a turn).

Edited September 15, 2017 by Kouta

[Peregine]

Changing where the Speed cap is raised is fine by me, though I believe you said you were going to raise Flash to -5 in that case? 

 

Better! looks sick with the new description, thanks mate! I'm still not sold on Friction!, but I won't stand in the way of it going through. 

[Kouta]

Indeed I meant to. So fixed.

 

However if we're reaching a potential conclusion here, I'ma tag @cntrstrk14 so he can make sure he gets words in on this before its finalized, since this will be one of if not the only bloodline/AS that uses both activated stats and advanced regen, and I want to make sure he feels the balance is right before we set the precedent.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Kouta

[cntrstrk14]

Some notes to organize my thoughts...

 

• 5% Activation, 2.5% Upkeep Chakra & Stamina
• No Advanced Regen haulting.

• Speed Force; Run: +600 Speed. Can max out at lvl 80.

 

Speed Force; Run

Seems fine. +600 to a single stat is a bit over costed here for -5 SP, but I will get to that more below because I think the rest of the abilities supplement this nicely.

 

Speed Force; Flash
This seems fine, I like the idea of "bursting" for extra speed a lot. Because this Exhaustion stacks with other things I would actually rather just... not use Exhaustion. What if instead of the whole end section you instead said...

 

"If a ninja exceeds this number, all Chakra and Stamina costs are increased by 10y% for the rest of the battle, where y is equal to the number of times they have used Flash beyond it's maximum."

 

10% is less than the 20% from, Exhausted, but this lasts the rest of the battle rather than 2 turns. It's a lot easier to keep track of and you don't need to worry about confusion with Exhaustion stacking.

 

At maximum rank and level you can get up to +1200 Speed in one turn, but at the cost of 12.5% Chakra and Stamina. That is a massive drop in a single stat, though the total is less than other bloodlines that max out at 1440. The problem is that most of those max out at 720 per stat, so your 600 max is actually not that far below the normal allowable single stat boost. 

 

Conclusion
I think that the flat upkeep cost is too low if you want to keep Advanced Regeneration. You are at the base level getting less stats overall, but your single stat boost is only a bit below other bloodlines and you have the ability to get (I believe) the largest single stat boost in the game when needed. Couple that with the fact that Speed benefits from a "pay as you need" model to manipulate key turns and I don't think that this bloodline for the SP cost of -10 total is that far below some others. That said, it is below others because a single stat boost is all it does, even if it does that part very very well.

 

- Adjust Upkeep to 5% Chakra & Stamina. 
- No other changes.

 

Masteries

 

Farther!: I would cap this at 20% total word count instead of 0. To get to 0 you need to be bending time and space. As per unwritten rules this is Kinjutsu territory. 25% is Sennin technique territory, and since you are paying SP you can go even lower even though you get access to this at level 80.

 

Better!: So best case scenario we're looking at a full Genjutsu build Speed Force user. This basically increases their modifiers by +50% for that turn. At 1200 Genjutsu this is +150 Speed per modifier. At 2000 Genjutsu this is +250 Speed. I think this is fine, but it does need a "This bonus may only be applied x times per turn, where x is the number of Main Phase Actions this character has." This allows you to stay flexible with getting a bonus in a Setup Phase Action, but doesn't let you go insane with like multiple free actions that boost your Speed, etc. Basically capping it at the number of times you would get a normal Genjutsu modifier per turn.

 

Faster!: I would say just increase the effectiveness of Haste to 20%. At a "fair" 2000 Speed this is +100 Speed per turn of Haste, and I assume that given the focus of this bloodline you intend to be much further beyond 2000 Speed at max level. Increasing turn duration is risky business and always has oddities like encouraing players to do 'Haste' in incriments of 1 turn instead of more.

 

Friction!: So up to +15% total damage as Burning? Sure. It's tied to Flash and has a lot of telegraphing. Seems fine.

 

Inertia!: Woah. And here we have by far the best skill in this entire set. I think these are fine, but I would put these at a -3 SP and -2 SP skills individually, which means -5 for the combination of the two abilities.

 

 

Overall I like what you did here. It feels a lot more streamlined and straight forward. I think this is a good example of a very focused AS.

[Kouta]

Just because it may change the way you think about things:

Remember that when I "Flash" for my big speed boost that my "Ranks" in Run can become 10. This means abilities like "Better" can become a 40:10 (20:5) Ratio for that one turn, and that Friction is capable of smashing you at +30% as Burn Damage. I saw you didn't mention this in your review, and wanted to be sure you'd taken that into account.
 

The rest all sounds great, and I'm editing costs and abilities thusly.

[cntrstrk14]

That changes my opinion on Better!, I think it's too strong then. It does not change my opinion on Friction!

[Kouta]

Then I'll just hard cap "Better!" at 40:5 all the time instead of having it scale.

[cntrstrk14]

Some of this will be a bit hard to judge until it sees more play but I think this is a good starting place.

Approved

[Pwnzie]

Approved.