Plant Offensive Support Skills

[fuhgahkra]

My plan for Fuhgahkra is to have him be a mainly ninjustu specialist that has some ninjustu-taijustu hybrids. These are ideas I have been working on for awhile now and wanted to see if they were possible.

 

Woodsman Monk

Your tranquil nature with wildlife and your use of plant or wood ninjutsu has become something you rely heavily on. To the point that even your taijustu relies on using it for an advantage. Be it sprouting sharp vines to cut your opponent when you kick or using wood to reinforce your punches. You use your ninjutsu to aid in close range combat.

 

Effect: The user may learn techniques of the Woodsman Monk Taijutsu Style and may accumulate "Petal Charges". "Petal Charges" are gained whenever an opponent is successfully hit with a Woodsman Monk Style technique. In addition, a character possessing "Petal Charges" may expend them in the following ways:

-When performing a Woodsman Monk Style technique, the user may spend X Petal Charges to treat their target's Defense as if it was 5X% lower by the attack and to add 5X% of their base damage as Poison damage to it. This may never cause the base damage of the attack to break the base damage caps.

 

-When performing a Woodsman Monk Style technique, the user can spend 5 Petal Charges to add an area of effect strike that does not target the user's allies that inflicts one turn of Stunned.

 

Cost: -1

Edited January 21, 2022 by fuhgahkra
changing due to feedback

[Princess]

On phone, your wood monk is as far as it goes and that's getting denied. Taijutsu styles must include taijutsu as a mandatory part, and you cannot take the mechanical benefits of taijutsu and slap it on ninjutsu, or we lose taijutsu's identity.

[fuhgahkra]

Ah okay. Then what if it was only ninjutsu-taijustu hybrids? Would that work?

[Princess]

You generally make it work off the taijutsu. Ignore plant altogether for it. So like, go have a look at the stuff I'm working on. Triple hybrid Ice/Celestial Monarch/Time Archetype.

Celestial Monarch Style just pings of taijutsu attacks with the [Celestial Monarch Style] tag. So my hybrids, that have three different tags, contribute to the style's charge generation as it is still a CMS taijutsu. That's how you build these. You CAN go the 'hybrids contribute' style but ehhh. Don't. How I would do this:
 

Spoiler

Woodsman Monk

Your tranquil nature with wildlife and your use of plant or wood ninjutsu has become something you rely heavily on. To the point that even your taijustu relies on using it for an advantage. Be it sprouting sharp vines to cut your opponent when you kick or using wood to reinforce your punches. You use your ninjutsu to aid in close range combat.

Effect: The user may learn techniques of the Woodsman Monk Taijutsu Style and may accumulate "Petal Charges". "Petal Charges" are gained whenever an opponent is successfully hit with a Woodsman Monk Style technique. In addition, a character possessing "Petal Charges" may expend them in the following ways:

-The user may spend up to X "Petal Charges" when using a [Woodsman Monk Style] technique.  That technique gains 'Ignore 3X% of the opponents defence for this attack.'

-The user may spend 2X "Petal Charges" when using a [Woodsman Monk Style] technique. That technique may target an additional X characters, and is treated as a multi-hit technique.

-The user may spend 1 "Petal Charge" as an action in the Setup Phase. In the following Main Phase, all Basic Unarmed Strikes gain [Plant] with the associated effects, and are modified by ninjutsu at a 30:5 ratio. Basic Weapon Attacks also gain [Plant], but do not gain ninjutsu modifiers.

Cost: -2

Now you may be wondering 'Damn princess you changed it all, why do? Allow me to explain. The formatting was just my and most people's formatting for styles, you can use it or don't.

Effect 1: Your previous version will not fly. I get you're looking at Lisha's, but there's a big difference between lowering Chakra, which has already been spent and thus you're actually lowering regen slightly, and lowering an actively used stat. So that's not going to fly. This let's you get a demi-explosion on your attack though, ignoring their defences to let your attacks through. 3x% means you get up to 15, which is reasonably substantial. 
Effect 2: Yeah, 200CP is not paying for non-ally targeting AoEs on whatever techs you want even with the build up time. Non-ally targeting AoE cost 4x the base cost, meaning for your 5 charges you could make techniques with a total cost of 50CP AoE. That's nothing. So instead, I changed this to let you branch out your attacks to slap up to two other targets. That's much more within the bounds of what you're paying for.

Effect 3: Mostly clarified and slight rebalance. So it's a setup action now, this is a reasonably large bonus to get given the tag attaches all your skills that buff plant to it. If it's 1 charge, it's eating an action. Then, clarified it adds Plant and basic attack modifiers to basic attacks. That makes sense, turn your punches and kicks into hybrids. Then it adds plant to your weapon swings, but doesn't add mods. That's because to get nin mods on weapon strikes takes two abilities, full mods takes three, just adding the element takes 1. I'm happy to give you Elemental Affinity for a charge, we can swing that. Getting the mods is going to cost you more.


Then, let's take a look at your other skills.

Energy Vampire:

'As well as' is a bit much here. I think this would work better as a substitution effect. Your requirements are also wholly unnecessary. It only applies to plant ninjutsu anyway. Also don't like the name.

 

Vampiric Pollen

Your aptitude with plant life has allowed you to experiment with their properties. Now when doing plant ninjutsu. You are able to change their properties slightly in their smell or texture slightly. Producing an intoxicating smell or slight burning sensation that drains energy. This in turn also allows you to make plants and seeds that slightly re-energies yourself and teammates.

Effect: You may treat the effects of Combinatorial;Plant as the following when using [Plant] ninjutsu (declare this skill when using the technique):
'May use Plant Element techniques. Plant Element Medical techniques grant the target Stamina equal to 10% of the total amount healed. Offensive Plant Element techniques deal additional Stamina Damage equal to 10% of the total damage. In addition, the user may choose to apply the bonus from one of the Subtle Elements skills required to learn this element if they own it.'

Cost: 2

 

So this way, you retain the option to pick or choose if you want regular or stamina damage, but you don't layer it all on at once. This is similar to how a lot of elemental bloodlines work these kind of skills and I reckon that's fine. -2 because it's a powerful effect, and it has versatility, and you can win by nixxing people's stamina to 0 and punishing them off that, so no need to transform it into chakra damage.

Silent Rage:

Oooh boy, this is many levels of no. You will never get a skill that puts 3 of your stats to the cap for the rest of the thread. Ever. Back to the drawing board on this one mate. There's some decent room in this to work, but the stat increase is a hard no.

[fuhgahkra]

Okay. Tweaked silent rage down to two ideas. It's either a lesser bonus for a limited number of turns and only towards that specific person. Or it's gonna be a debuff that's for the while battlenonce activated, but only towards the person wgo activated it. I'm fine with either version so it's just about which ine works best for the battle system.

 

Added a text component of using petal charges for monk style. Option of using 1 additional charge to reduce cost by 40. This was going with the assumption that 1 charge equal 40 cp. I've seen from other styles that that's the general trend so i just went with that.

[almondsAndRain]

Vampiric Pollen

Seems fine. Cost needs to be -2 though, not 2. 

 

First Version of Silent Rage

Increasing three stats by 50% is way too much. Going to use a high level character you can see as an example, Hyuuga Yatako. He has very high stats, so is a perfect example of why abilities that boost stats by a percentage are not allowed. If he picked Taijutsu, Concentration, and Speed when he purchased this skill, the total stat increase would be 2,190 (1,000 because his Taijutsu is 2,000, 500 because his Concentration is 1,000, 690 because his Speed is 1,380). This is a massive increase, even if its duration is short and activating it is prohibitive. Given that it is not an Advanced System and has no real cost to him, he will layer his Byakugan on top of this to also boost his Accuracy and Evasion almost to their caps as well. 

 

Second Version of Silent Rage

This is way too much, even compared to the first one. It has the same problem where it reduces the target’s stats by a very large percentage, except it affects your target without warning and there is nothing they can do about it. They didn’t know you had this skill, so as punishment for beating up your friend/trying to win the battle, they’re basically permanently Blinded and Exposed against your attacks. 

 

Recommendations for Silent Rage

Regardless of which direction you take this skill in the future, I would recommend against having its trigger based off another player’s character. Given how rarely teams stick together in NA and how rare team battles are, this will probably turn into a waste of skill points very quickly. Maybe have it trigger off of any ally being defeated instead so that it works when your clones or summons get poofed, make the bonuses much more modest (and not a percentage increase!), and slap on a maximum duration. Maybe even let it stack with itself, depending on its exact effects. But as it stands, this unfortunately can’t be approved. 

 

Woodsman Monk

This does a lot and its effects are kind of all over the place. Honestly, I think you should just roll with what Princess typed up for you and revert your most recent changes. 

 

It’s getting close to bedtime, so I’m not gonna hit every part of this, but I’ll comment on this in particular: 

 

“the user may use "petal charges" to complete Woodsman Monk Style techniques. User may pay x charge to reduce the cost of a Woodsman monk-Style technique by 40 for each charge used. This may not reduce the cost of the technique to more than half of the original cost. For Monk style hybrid techniques, if the cap of reduction of chakra or stamina is met but the other tank stat could be reduced more, the user may use the rest of the reduction to reduce the cost of stamina or chakra.”

 

I’m not a fan of this kind of effect. You can already give any Woodsman technique you create a 40X Chakra and/or Stamina discount by building the Petal Charge cost into the technique itself when you submit it to the forums. This lets you apply that kind of discount to any Woodsman technique you have. It renders the mainsite effect superfluous. 

[fuhgahkra]

After sitting on these for awhile, I have decided to remove the silent rage skill. I wanted this skill to be a flavor for Fuhgakra's personality but I can still do that without it. I've been thinking about ways to try and do it without being an issue with buffs being too large, but I don't think there's a way I could that I think would be worth while to actually take the skill. Thanks for the help you two!

Edited November 25, 2020 by fuhgahkra

[Cellar Door]

 

Vampiric Pollen - Because Chakra and Stamina damage should never benefit from modifiers, the stamina damage that this deals should not key off of Total Damage. It looks innocuous as a genin or chunin because you're familiar with low numbers, but if you look at it at the higher level, where you're potentially throwing a 2000 damage attack, you're getting a free 200 Stamina drain. Worse yet, it's not just being affected by modifiers, it's also being affected by things like Critical Hits. I would be willing to grant a Stamina drain locked to the Base Damage of an attack instead, though.

Woodsman Monk Style - Option 1 is approved. Simple and easy enough. Option 2 is denied as it is. If you were to take the identical damage and effects of an attack and split it into two attacks, you would be blowing the doors off of the Cost Caps for technique ranks. The logical balance fix for option two is to say something like "You may pay 2x charges to treat your next attack as a multi-strike attack, with all damage and effects being divided evenly among the targets.". Option 3 is sadly also denied. This is not because it's not allowed. We have things like this, but because it should not be something you gain access to via your taijutsu style. It sets a weird precedent since we try and keep those two design spaces separate. Now, if you want to make an altogether different skill that can make your basic attacks or whatever plant-based that would be more acceptable. 

[fuhgahkra]

following kc's feedback, I changed the stamina damage for vampiric pollen to base damage only. Given this, I increased in percentage slightly to 13%.  Since this is now limited to base damage, the max value the 13% can be based off on on each rank of a technique is 80, 150, 380, and 800. This results in the stamina damage being 10, 20 49, and 104. Given that I would have to do a max base damage tech, the cost would be 40, 51, 90, 200 with max reduction. Given that I will be paying more reserves to do the technique than they would lose if hit, I think this helps balances the skill.

 

Woodsman Monk style:

Option 2: I corrected the grammar error to ensure it's not breaking a cap without paying the cost. I added an effect that allows for increasing the status effect of the techique being used for the value of paying charges to equal or be more of the value. This is to help in the instances of technically having to split a one turn effect status effect while also allowing me the strategy to extend the effect on 1 person if they are hit

Option 3: Okay, I'll try to create a skill that allows that. I changed the third option to allow one strike to gain the migraine effect, I think that should work because it's sacrifices a charge and is 40 cp.

[Sol Pope]

I'd like to see Woodman Monk's second active effect cleaned up in wording so there is no confusion here.

 

"The user may pay 2x charges to treat their next [Woodsman Monk Style] technique as a multi-strike attack, with all damage and effects being divided evenly among the targets, where X is the number of additional characters targeted. In addition, the user may pay X Additional charges when doing this to extend the duration of one Status Effect of the casted [Woodsman Monk Style] technique to one of the strikes of the multi attack by one turn as long as the value of the cp cost of the status effect is equal to or less than the number of charges spent. Treat the value of each charge spent as 40 cp."

 

I want to express that the third active ability is probably overly weak. I would recommend making this migraine effect apply to more than just unarmed and basic weapon attacks.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Sol Pope

[almondsAndRain]

To build off of what Pope said and in an effort to make this easier to understand, because while I can't speak for everyone I can say that it took me several tries to understand what this does, I've reworded the Style: 

 

Woodsman Monk Style

Effect: The user may learn and perform Woodsman Monk Style Taijutsu techniques and they may generate Petal Charges. Petal Charges may be spent in the following ways:

• The user may spend X Petal Charges when performing a Woodsman Monk Style technique for the attack to ignore 5X% of its targets' Defense stats.
• The user may spend 1 Petal Charge to add one turn of Migraine to the first strike of a Woodsman Monk Style technique they perform this turn.
• The user may spend 2X Petal Charges to treat a Woodsman Monk Style technique they perform as a multi-strike attack with X more targets. All of its damage and effects are evenly divided among all of its targets.
• The user may spend X Petal Charges when performing a Woodsman Monk Style technique to add one more turn of a status effect that costs 30X CP or less. 

Description: wordsAndWords.

Cost: -3.

 

I made some changes to its effects, and I will explain them here: 

 

1: I increased the power to being closer in-line with mainsite stuff like Lotus or Desert Aikido or Mountain Ox. Given that ignoring part of your opponent's Defense is basically like hitting them with mini-Exposed without giving them a chance to react to it, and that this Style does a lot of different shit, I'm fine with this not being as strong as the mainsite effects and wouldn't like to see it be pushed any further up.

 

2: This was also strengthened, like Pope said this was weirdly limited before.

 

3: I elaborated on what this does when the attack is already a multi-strike and split the second half of its effect into 4, because it was basically two abilities masquerading as one and also because it had two X variables inside that made it very confusing to read.

 

4: This is reduced to 30CP because variable Charges are worth 30, not 40. Charges with static effects are worth 40, like with the Migraine effect above. Leniency here is sometimes given with Styles, but given that this is already a very versatile monster with four options when most other Styles only get one or two, I don't think it needs any leniency.

 

The cost is -3 for this, largely because of the two extra abilities it has over the standard two for active styles. I think someone else might make you reduce the number of options you have available, but so long as you pay for them I won't complain.

 

[fuhgahkra]

Adjustments made to Woodsman Monk-Style following new feedback. Also removed essence of the Woodsman  due to build changes

[fuhgahkra]

Another change through thinking and reflecting 

[PandaMattMatt]

I don't think you should be completely rewriting the effect of plant. Essentially, you're A.) creating an entirely new element. B.) Stepping on the toes of Snow I believe that does chakra/stamina damage. C.) Is very close and infringing on Tank Stat draining which we only allow as a bloodline ability. In it's current form I do not think Vampiric Pollen is approvable. 

 

I have been aware of your plant stuff for a bit and I am very glad that there is another plant user who is not a medic. However, it seems to me that you are not at all interested in using the plant aspect as much as a fungal aspect moreso. So maybe you take the time and make a new element like Combi: Fungus. Then you could create a whole new effect and really focus on this niche "draining" you seem interested in. Just a thought.

[fuhgahkra]

Removed vampric pollen 

[almondsAndRain]

The style can be reduced to -1.

[fuhgahkra]

changes made following everyone's feedback

[almondsAndRain]

Approved.

[Sol Pope]

Approved