cntrstrk14 Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 So I didn't think 7.0 had enough Syaoran nerf, so I decided to nuke Alchem as well. Haha. Because a certain somebody wanted to use my bloodline as an excuse/attack that something they had that I claimed was broken was justifiable, and the arguement that 'because he got it means I can break the system' too pisses me off to no end as I sit back and try my hardest to keep the game balanced, I am resubmitting my bloodline. Also: As I know the Alchem have been a yardstick for many bloodlines and other abilities, I wouldn't be surprised that by the end of this topic we are toppling TONS of other topics. But if thats what it takes to keep the system balanced thats fine by me. The largest change is too Alchemic Eye, as that was where the first shot was taken at and is the oldest portion (I think it hasn't been touched since 5.0 if not earlier). I have doubled costs and put limitations on it that were absent before. I also changed the explaination. Keep in mind the effects of Alchemic Eye can be bought for any armor as well when looking over this. :: Old Alchemy :: :: Old Alchemy Branches :: AlchemyThe use of Alchemy is not only a science to the Alchem clan, it is a bloodline which is passed from generation to generation. The Alchem can use their own bodies and chakra to manipulate the environment around them and change the composition of elements. The chakra of a full blood Alchem is golden and blue, swirling and mixing, yet each with a separate use. Blue chakra is the chakra of a normal ninja, able to be used and manipulate techniques and skills. The golden chakra though is a force of change. It is used in the transmutations that members of the Alchem clan take part of. This unique chakra has the ability to change any element or molecule it comes in contact with into the element or molecule of the member's thoughts. Effect: The user has full use of alchemy in Role Play, but in order to use alchemy in a battle they must have a technique or skill that allows them to specifically use an effect. Requirements: Membership, all clan members are required to have the bloodline. Cost: -1 Alchemic Eye Branch Through intense study and practice with elements, members of the Alchem clan can take less damage from attacks of elemental ninjutsu nature. These attacks have an increasingly less effect on the clan member as they live longer and study more. Though the common name for this branch of the Alchem clan abilities tends to make one believe the power comes from their eyes, it is actually the properties of their unique chakra that prevents the effectiveness of enemy attacks. The Alchem’s body will readily adapt its own chakra aura to break down and distribute the elemental chakra of an incoming attack, breaking away at its effectiveness without any conscious thought on the Alchem’s behalf. However, this does require that the Alchem be in a proper state of mind to hold the essence of an element in their mind. The chakra can, even at the mastery levels, only take on so many different elements at a time, which means the user must channel their aura to meet a certain need. Over a period of a few minutes this is an effortless task, but in order to force a change in the mist of battle one must expend some resources to quicken the process. Cost: Costs 1% of the incoming techniques cost in Chakra rounded down to a minimum of one (1) Chakra. Paid in the Response Phase, user may choose to not pay the cost to negate the effect. Limit: The user may only have these reductions apply to x types of elements at a time. x is equal to the current rank of Alchemic Eye the user has; Mastery is not considered a rank. These elements can be chosen at the start of battle for free, but a cost of 2% Total Chakra may be paid in the setup phase in order to change any or all of the chosen elements. Refer to the rank of the skill for which elements may be chosen. When a battle commences the user must PM the list of elements they chose to an active staff member who is not directly involved (preferably admin) and also again if they change this list in the middle of battle. Alchemic Eye: Rank 1 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The first knowledge, the clan member can perceive the incoming attack and their chakra adapts slightly to deal with the offensive element. Effect: -10% damage against chosen basic elemental attack. Double this reduction if 'Alchemic Thought' is activated. Cannot stack with any other abilities to increase damage reduction over 75%. Requirements: Must do 10 post training to learn this rank. Cost: -1 Alchemic Eye: Rank 2 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The ninja has now lived the life of a ninja for awhile and has gotten into quite a few scuffles. Combining their experience and studied knowledge their body is able to more thoroughly adapt to the offensive elements, breaking them apart as they near the body. Effect: -15% damage against chosen basic elemental attacks. Double this reduction if 'Alchemic Thought' is activated. Does not stack with lower ranks. Cannot stack with any other abilities to increase damage reduction over 75%. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 1, Must be level 20. Cost: -2 Alchemic Eye: Rank 3 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: Having completed multiple missions and met many ninja of different countries this ninja's experience and knowledge has expanded. As they have traveled they have learned the weaknesses of each element and take advantage of them on the conscious and subconscious level. Effect: -20% damage against chosen basic elemental attacks. Double this reduction if 'Alchemic Thought' is activated. Does not stack with lower ranks. Cannot stack with any other abilities to increase damage reduction over 75%. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 2, Must be a level 40. Cost: -2 Alchemic Eye: Rank 4 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The mastery of the Alchemic Eye, the ninja has traveled far and wide, battling many ninja and experiencing many different uses of each element. Their body is now at its natural peak, being able to fully break down half of all offensive elemental chakra before it can reach the body. Effect: -25% damage against chosen basic elemental attacks. Double this reduction if 'Alchemic Thought' is activated. Does not stack with lower ranks. Cannot stack with any other abilities to increase damage reduction over 75%. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 3, Must be level 60. Cost: -2 Alchemic Eye: Mastery Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The study of the elements is absolutely necessary to any Alchem who seeks to become a master of their bloodline. Applying their knowledge of the basic five elements to the properties of combinational elements of these basic five, a master is able to see the flaw in any of these ninjutsu and exploit it to their advantage. This type of keen and trained eye can only be obtained from an experienced ninja and scholar. Naturally, their subconscious mind prospers as their conscious mind gains more experience. Effect: -Alchemic Eye may now choose an element that is a combination of two elements. Requirements: -Alchemic Eye: Rank 4 -Alchemic Thought: Rank 4 -Alchemic Metabolism: Rank 3 -Level 75 Cost: -2 Alchemic Thought Branch Through manipulating their own chemical balances within their body a member of the Alchem Clan can increase their bodies abilities. Unlocking the triggers in their mind much like the Celestial Gates, the Alchem can surpass their own potential for a short time, using their chakra as a fuel. However, much like the Celestial Gates, unlocking these natural blockades will take a large toll on the body. At the highest ranks of this ability an Alchem will need to search out medical attention afterwards, even with their supernatural bodies. When this ability is activated the clan member's eye color will change to a dull golden color and the ink in their clan tattoo will react to the surge of chakra, glowing a bright crimson color to signal that the clan’s secret technique has been activated. Cost: (5 – x)% Total Chakra to activate and (5 – x)% Total Chakra per following turn as an upkeep. x is equal to the amount of ranks the currently activated rank is underneath the highest rank of this skill you own. For example; If you have up to rank 3 and you are using rank 2, it would cost 4% Total Chakra to activate and as upkeep. Mastery does not count as a rank. Limit: Cannot affect tank stats. Cannot increase a stat more than 1.5x its base. Advanced regeneration skills are halted when this ability is active. Cannot be activated with the Celestial Gates. Alchemic Thought: Rank 1 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The first step of mastery of alchemic brain manipulation. The clan member can now slightly modify the cellular composition of their brain and body to improve their skills, but only in one area at a time. They dare not to push their power further. Effect: +100 to one stat for x turns. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 1 Cost: -1 Alchemic Thought: Rank 2 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The second step of alchemic brain manipulation. In this step the member has doubled their ability, but can still only manage manipulating two different areas at one time. Effect: +100 to two stats for x turns. Does not stack with lower ranks. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 1, Level 15 Cost: -2 Alchemic Thought: Rank 3 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The third step, the member has once again double their efforts. Though this seem impressive from the outside, the member still cannot push on. Effect: +100 to four stats for x turns. Does not stack with lower ranks. Has a 50% chance to put the user in the hospital for y days (y = admin decision, no less than 5 days.) Roll as 1d2, if 1 they are in hospital. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 2, Level 30 Cost: -2 Alchemic Thought: Rank 4 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The final step, the member is finally able to master their entire body, increasing productivity on all levels. Though the strain on the body is too great and they must spend time in the hospital after using this effect. Effect: +100 to eight stats for x turns. After using this, you spend time in the hospital for y days. (y = admin decision, no less than 5 days.) Does not stack with lower ranks. Requirements: Alchemic Eye: Rank 3, Level 50 Cost: -3 Alchemic Thought: Mastery Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The manipulation of the brain has been a core study in the workings of the Alchem clan. Through boosting of brain capacity and power an Alchem member can increase their own limitations far beyond that of normal. This naturally causes a strain on the body and mind and usually requires medical attention immediately afterwards. But a true master of Alchemy and Manipulation can maximize their control of their body and manage the strain to keep from hurting their own body. The knowledge and experience to control such massive manipulations though require a complete knowledge of the clan and the workings of alchemy. Effect: -No hospital stay is needed when using Rank 3 or Rank 4 of Alchemic Thought. -After using Alchemic Thought Rank 3, user rolls 1d2. If the result is a 1, the user may no reactivate Alchemic Thought for two days. (RP Time) -After using Alchemic Thought Rank 4, user may not re-activate Alchemic Thought for two days. (Rp Time) Requirements: -Alchemic Eye: Rank 4 -Alchemic Thought: Rank 4 -Alchemic Metabolism: Rank 3 -Level 75 Cost: -2 Alchemic Metabolism Branch Having gained the expertise to enact great changes on their body using mostly subconscious alchemy, a member of the Alchem clan will often wonder about the possibility of permanent enhancements to their bodies. Fewer will succeed in doing such a thing. Alchemic Metabolism: Rank 1 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: Hyperefficient use of all food – it is converted entirely to fat and other nutrients, with no waste, and thus a user of this skill gains weight with extreme speed, as they gain the weight of whatever they eat in fat. However, they also gain the ability to make permanent, minor cosmetic changes to their bodies, which are of course reversible by the same process. Examples of such changes most commonly include removal of large parts of the digestive tract, which is now largely unnecessary after the stomach, alteration of hair color or body hair, thinner body shape, facial shape alterations, and so on. Effect: The user can reduce missing-nin visibility by up to 50% whenever they like (it is impossible to hide the extremely unique chakra of a possessor of this trait, and thus the visibility can never go below 20%), but it takes significant time (usually three or so weeks to achieve completely different actual bodies, or less than a day to change enough to be completely different to the naked eye). User can now assume any anthropomorphic body shape indefinitely. As long as the user has something – anything – to eat or drink, they are fully nourished. They are, by extension, immune to orally ingested poisons. Requirements: Alchemic Thought Rank 3. Level 45. Cost: -2 Alchemic Metabolism: Rank 2 Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The respiration system has now been completed supplanted, along with vast systemic changes in the cell structure. All substances inhaled, swallowed, or otherwise ingested are now converted directly to energy, which is used to fuel the body's systems, as well as into water and the various nutrients, proteins, etc, which are needed for life. The excess energy (and there is a vast excess) as well as any waste chemicals in the body are returned to the environment as the appropriate ambient matter (usually air). The lungs and heart may or may not continue to work, and it doesn't particularly matter anymore, because their purposes have been pretty much eliminated. Other organs usually go dormant simply because they aren't being used. Effect: The user is now immune to inhaled or injected poisons. They may or may not bleed, but regardless they are immune to bleeding damage as blood is no longer necessary. It is impossible for the user to suffocate, drown, starve, or become dehydrated except in a complete vacuum. However, they would die of explosive decompression long before such a thing happened. Requirements: Alchemic Thought Rank 4. Level 55. Cost: -3 Alchemic Metabolism: Rank 3 New Submission Alchemic Metabolism: Mastery Bloodline: Alchemy Description: The manipulation of one's own body and appearance has for many years, especially in this age of ninja, been regarded as a very highly sought after skill. With the knowledge that speed in changing appearance is necessary for a ninja, an experience Alchem can increase their speed of Alchemic Metabolism and manipulate at a much greater rate. Being able to split and multiply their own cells at an increased rate and have a full mastery of everything within them sets them apart from the rest. A true master of this skill however must have a full and complete understanding of the clan and the workings of alchemy. Effect: -Regrowth of limbs via Alchemic Metabolism only takes three days. -Change of appearance via Alchemic Metabolism takes one minute. Requirements: -Alchemic Eye: Rank 4 -Alchemic Thought: Rank 4 -Alchemic Metabolism: Rank 3 -Level 75 Cost: -1
Nappers Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I believe I had a hand in making them 6.0 acceptable a long time ago so I'm going to swing at them now. Starting with Thought. There's limits that need to be here that aren't, regarding the usual 'cannot exceed target stat by more than 1.5x their base.' Also I need to reconsider the upkeep cost. Also, I can't remember, but can the target stat be the same stat over and over? -- I've been looking at the Eye over and over for the best part of a half hour. I can't hid the fact that something irks me about the reduction that's gained. I understand the reasoning behind it though. I think my problems can be summarized as: - Very low SP for dramatic reduction, - It's a passive effect but there's no Tank Stat Cost to them, so an attack could deal 1000 damage after modifiers and at the highest rank of this it reduces by 500 damage. Which is immense for no actual cost to the user. Not even an upkeep cost. - It would maybe work better not as a passive ability but an activation ability, Yeh. Seriously finding it difficult to allow, personally, such a massive reduction and such a cheap [sP wise] bloodline. -- On another note, I don't actually have an idea who this person is that you reference at the top but maybe 3/4 names cross my mind? -- So in summary. Let's discuss this.
cntrstrk14 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Posted August 26, 2009 Starting with Thought.There's limits that need to be here that aren't, regarding the usual 'cannot exceed target stat by more than 1.5x their base.' I added this in as you were making your post. I realized it myself and it was always something I assumed I had written in already. Also I need to reconsider the upkeep cost. Also, I can't remember, but can the target stat be the same stat over and over? Yes -- - Very low SP for dramatic reduction, -7 SP for a clan Branch that anyone could technically buy for $1750? (Technically as the rules are written now for equipment the armor is BETTER than my skill for two reasons. 1. It affects combinations of the elements you have protection against to a certain % and 2. Eye can only have its full reduction found if you have thought activated. Admittedly I plan to nerf the equipment to only allow reduction on the element of that type rather than combinations in the near future so that it will not give that bonus, as if you pay $1750 now for 50% on all 5 elements you have a 50% on everything up to Light jutsu.) - It's a passive effect but there's no Tank Stat Cost to them, so an attack could deal 1000 damage after modifiers and at the highest rank of this it reduces by 500 damage. Which is immense for no actual cost to the user. Not even an upkeep cost. Half of the effect is tied into Thought now, which means to get the second half you will be paying the upkeep for Thought. It maxs at 25% without thought activated.
Nappers Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I think where the problem starts is actually with the EQ which this is made in correlation to. The equipment is really under-priced, and even with a higher cost the percentage reduction is far too much. For 7.0, I think we really need to re-consider that EQ reduction stuff, they're a real remnant from 5.0 or so.
cntrstrk14 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Posted August 26, 2009 EQ has actually been pushed off to be an issue to address along with a Taijutsu revamp. I think I may have made some notes in admin elsewhere, but otherwise what are your thoughts on here? For -7 SP The Alchem get a passive -25% on Base Elements and a -50% on Base Elements for 5% chakra per turn.
Nappers Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 That might be more acceptable. I think another problem is that the upkeep of activation/upkeep of Thought degenerates which by itself would be fine but when tied with the reduction of elements in the Eye branch it makes it low cost for high effect. Where in admin is this discussion bro? I need to get my teeth into that- because the price representation to me, and looking at the cost to effect right now on the main site is insane.
cntrstrk14 Posted August 26, 2009 Author Posted August 26, 2009 Changed Alchemic Eye again, this time with a more interesting limitation.
Warr Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 I'd still like to see some level of activation cost/innate cost for the Alchemic eye ability, intrinsic to itself, and not tied to thought. The only one element in itself is a good reduction of it's previous power, but I'd still like to see [something], let's say 1%? cost on it. If nothing else, perhaps 1% or 2% of the incoming attack's chakra cost to reduce it so?
cntrstrk14 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 In the interest of it making sense since it does seem reasonable that it would cost a very small amount of chakra each time this is used, I added in 1% chakra cost, rounded down to a minimum of 1. Now watch that knock me out sometime when I am at like 2 chakra, lol.
Warr Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Lol, yeah, it could happen, but every superman has their kryptonite, and bloodlines having flaws are what make them tools, instead of duex machina. ^^ I'm not entirely sure I understand why Path of the Sage is necessary to get the higher ranks of Alchemic Metabolism, though. If I understood the explanation to it, it'd be approved. Alchemic Though is approved. Alchemic Eye is approved. Metabolism I want the explanation for, but soon as I understand it, all three branches are: Approved
cntrstrk14 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 I believe that is just an artifact of the old times when the Path of the Sage was a studied learner rather than a teacher as it kind of warped into now. I will look it over and consider it, I may make it Path of the Wise or Path of the Advanced Medical Ninja as it does require a studied knowledge of some kind.
Warr Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 If studied learning was the reason for that, you could even go with having a training requirement associated, a certain amount of words to gain it.
cntrstrk14 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 Yeah, but its not really a 'sit down for a week and understand this' type of knowledge, its a gradual "Oh, this is how my body works" type of knowledge. Thats why the level requirement is so much higher than any other branch. Just removed the requirement, upped the level requirements a bit.
cntrstrk14 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Posted August 28, 2009 I'm surprised more people aren't tearing into this yet.
Ravage Nocturne Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 Something I never saw clarified: Does Alchemic thought allow you to bolster eight stats by 100 or allow you to bolster stats anyway you wish with a limitation of 800? Aka: +100 to eight or can it be +800 to one, etc.
cntrstrk14 Posted August 28, 2009 Author Posted August 28, 2009 Any stats in intervals of 100. The same stat can be chosen as many times. So it can be like, 800 to one, 400 to two, 100 to eight. But it cannot be 360 to one and 440 to another.
cntrstrk14 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Posted September 1, 2009 Uh, bump? I don't have any problem with this never getting approved though, I'll keep my broken bloodline xD
Matthias Drake Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Oh fuck, clan tattoos! I forgot we even had those things. "Sanji, where's your tattoo?" "My what?" "Your clan tattoo. The one that means you're a legitimate member of the Alchem clan?" "I, uh, don't think I have one." "BURN THE IMPOSTOR!" I can't approve this, cause I play an alchem, but that is a hell of a nerf of Eye.
Cellar Door Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) For the sake of democracy, I moved this back. I was informed that a few people had not yet spoken their piece, and would at least like to have their opinions addressed, when this matter is all cleared up, I'll approve it once again. Edited September 1, 2009 by Cellar Door
Ravage Nocturne Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 I can't help but feel that the entire "Alchemic Thought" Branch is too cheap. Not only is it less expensive than 'lesser' forms of stat additions (Typically in the form of +YX (X=level)), it also allows you to manually distribute the points where you see fit, and in how much increment. This is an extraordinarily powerful effect, since it is in no way limited. It can always change, making it far, far beyond other bloodlines. I believe that this should be represented in the cost. At LEAST -1 SP per rank, but I wouldn't be shocked if it was overall more expensive.
cntrstrk14 Posted September 1, 2009 Author Posted September 1, 2009 Cost: -1Cost: -2 Cost: -2 Cost: -3 Cost: -2 I'm not sure what you mean, but those are the costs for each rank (and how they have been), making rank 4 -8 SP and -10 SP to make it so I don't lay in a hospital every time I use it.
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