Climatize-R

[Miso]

Climate Control; [Climate]

This item is imbued with unique characteristics that enhance the staying power of climate altering techniques.

Type: Attribute | Any Item

Effect: Once per battle per instance of this attribute you may, as a free action, increase the turn duration of one [Climate] you control by 1. The increase may break ninjutsu duration caps. [Climate] must be declared when the attribute is taken.

Cost: 3x; where x is the cost of 1 turn of [Climate]

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Miso

[Cellar Door]

250 is probably good for this. The name feels off though, and can you take this more than once? Like what if all of your armor had this effect? Actually... eh. The climate is still counterable. I dunno. For 250 each turn... that'd be pretty expensive.

[Miso]

I didn't think of that part; multiple pieces of armor with this attribute. What if I add "this attribute does not stack with multiple pieces of equipment that have the same designated jutsu" or limit the amount to 2 pieces of equipment with the same attribute?

 

I do however, want to allow a person to purchase this attribute multiple times but for separate designated jutsu. So, a person may have sandstorm and then high wind etc.

 

As for the name, weather control or climate control maybe? I'm not sure what sort of name this should have tbh. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Miso

[Peregine]

I don't think it's necessary to stop the effect stacking; if you're going to counter a climate it's not usually motivated by how long it'll last, more what it's doing to you. Plus if you're sinking 3-4 stacks worth of money into something that easy to deal with, well, you already know the risks. $250 sounds fine. Approved!

[PandaMattMatt]

I am also fine with this for the already stated reasons. Approved

Edited February 25, 2018 by PandaMattMatt

[cntrstrk14]

I am not okay with this stacking. It's the same type of problems with the only Genjutsu turn increasing skills. It gets to the point where the player is only paying for one turn of the effect and getting 200%, 300%, 500% bonuses for the cost they paid. I would change this to say that it may only be applied once per climate.

[Miso]

Sorry, I got lost on the road of life somewhere.

 

Would it be okay to cap this at 2? Get a tad bit of stacking but not jenga tower either. 500 cash for 2 extra turns max.

[Miso]

Ein bisschen was?

[Princess]

I don't think it is okay to stack it up man. I wouldn't mind you being able to purchase this multiple times on the same item, for different climates, but two turns over the cap is an awful lot, or as Tony said taking a 1 turn climate and making it last 3 turns is a huge shift in the dynamic balancing of the original technique.

Moreover, I don't think this should stack with different instances of...frankly anything. Not other Climate Control attributes on other items, nor on skills/abilities that also increase duration on stuff. I'd approve this if we had a line like: This effect does not stack with any other source that extends the duration of a climate or climates.

 

[Miso]

I added that only one instance of the attribute may be applied any time in battle.

 

So, if there were 2+ pieces of equipment with the attribute, the attribute can only come into play once but if one item was destroyed, a other piece can apply the attribute in its place.

 

I'm not really feeling the entirety that the attribute be limited to itself. I mean, I wouldn't waste sp on extending climates but if someone would, would it be right to keep them from using the attribute?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Miso

[Miso]

Would a reduction in the base cost of climate jutsu be acceptable instead? Rather than extending the turn duration? Say, 10% or would that be too much of a reduction for an item ability?

[Miso]

Still trying to get this thing pushed through.

[Miso]

Just kicking this can down the road...

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Miso

[Yurane]

This seems kind of way underpriced.

 

Even w/ just mainsite, Climates can cost as much as 110 chakra per turn and lowball at 30-40 for the ones that actually do anything. If we're comparing it to amplifiers, which no longer stack with each other, it's comparable to a rank 3, with a higher top end potential. That it can break turn cap durations kind of adds to that, and takes away from the obvious 'but amplifiers do other things too'... since this stacks with them as well. It also specifies climate techniques, not the climates themselves, so any other effects on a climate technique would be extended too - this aspect will need to be fixed.

 

With all that in mind, I wouldn't place this at anything less than $800, even after closing up that loophole.

 

 

Edit: Also, bumping your stuff over and over again is absolutely terrible bad taste. If you don't want to make an approval request, you're going to have to just wait.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Yurane

[Miso]

800 seems rather extreme, as you are the only one to even suggest anything that high. I don't know if that was because I bumped my topic and it put you in a bad mood or what but that is a massive jump from then to now and we are talking 5 modmin looking at this before hand and nothing that high was ever suggested.

 

It seems the stacking aspect of this attribute seems to be the most concerning issue with this. I honestly don't see the problem with it stacking, this is essentially an NA version of Damp Rock, Smooth Rock etc. on +1 turn. However, if it's an issue, then I won't fight it. I've added the bit that Princess suggested to keep this attribute from stacking with anything.

 

If the price is still an issue, I must respectfully ask for second and third opinions on the matter. It's truly a massive jump in pricing.

 

edit- but yes, I will remember to make another approval request from here on forward.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Miso

[Princess]

So Yurane has explained to me some of the justification for the cost being as high as it is, and honestly it makes a lot of sense. 'Extend the duration' of a technique leaves a lot of room for interpretation. Does it extend the duration of all status effects on a technique? Obviously you're still bound by caps other than the ninjutsu turn duration cap, but you could absolutely load a sennin technique up with 1 turn versions of a huge range of status effects, pop this and all of a sudden you're paying half what you should for very little investment.

Or, is it instead only really extending the duration of the climate, and all other status effects remain as they are? If so, is there a limit on the CP a climate pegged by this can be?  You could make a climate that's 200 Unmodified damage, -10% to hit and -10% to dodge, which costs 800 (the sennin max for climates) then with this BAM, you're getting a free 800CP when you extend that duration, and that's JUST on the climate itself.

So, there'a a potential fix here in that you could make it that the attribute MUST specify exactly which climate it is extending, and the cost is not a specified cost but instead an X variable based on the cost of the climate it is extending. You wouldn't want to pay $800 to extend the duration of a 40cp climate, but there is no way $200 is getting away with 800cp. 

$800 is 1:1 for the highest rank of climates, but all that covers is the climate. If you restrict this to only increasing the duration of climates, not climate techniques in general, and peg the cost at 1:1 the cost of the climate it is extending, I think this gets what you want (increased climate duration) and what Yurane was after (a fair price paid for the CP you are generating).

If you want to to be variable, and able to cover any and all climates, regardless of CP, then it will have to cost the maximum of that variable, which is 800.

[Yurane]

You really want to pull the "nobody else said anything yet so I don't have to listen to you" card on me, Miso? Alright, I'll break out the numbers and you'll see just how reasonable I was being.

 

40 damage and 40 chakra reduction = $1200 [Standard for Taijutsu Weights / Ninjutsu amplifier]

40 damage is assumed to be of less value than 40 chakra, as at any rank past gennin you have ratios.

So let's say 70 chakra = $1200

On a linear rate, that's about $17 per chakra

Costs for climates max out at 800. Therefore, this item should then cost 13,600, assuming we don't scale it up after a certain point.

Even if we only look at mainsite climates, they go up to 110, which would place this at 1870, and start at about 40, which would place it at 680.

 

Assuming we make this an average price of the lowest reasonable and highest possible cost range, this should instead cost $7,140. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Yurane

[Cellar Door]

This conversation has run absolutely wild.

Okay, so Cntrstrk wanted this to apply to a single climate effect, 1 time per battle. That means, the first time you would make the effect while whatever piece gear this is on is equipped, then you would get +1 turn. I agree with this. It lets you keep it cheap, and if you want to have it work more than once, buy a whole suit of armor with this on it, and you can bust this effect once for each piece of armor.

That being said, Yurane's pricing here is ridiculous. We don't need to try and future proof this behind a tremendously huge number when the parameters are hard-locked to 1 Climate. So, make this a once per battle thing (I couldn't care less if you make it so it can stack with itself. If you want to pop this 9 times and have 10 turns of a climate, go for it, but be prepared to have somebody pop a diff climate and wipe your work off the field.) per instance of the attribute, and then make the cost of this 3x, with x being the cost of 1 turn of the chosen climate.

This would make Heavy Rain cost you 270, which is reasonable for 1 bonus turn of Heavy Rain in a battle. But it would make Blizzard cost you 450 for that one extra turn... and so on and so forth up until somebody decided to make this for some ungodly 500 cost climate and it wound up costing 1500 per turn.

Savvy?

Spruce this up and I'll slap an app.

[Miso]

Done and done bruv. 

[Cellar Door]

"The chosen climate may have its duration increased by 1 turn, once per battle".

Right now it kinda can apply to any climate, as written.

 

[Princess]

It's also kinda worded as a passive effect when its clearly a triggered effect? If I might suggest a fiddling with the terms:

 

Climate Control; [Climate]

This item is imbued with unique characteristics that enhance the staying power of climate altering techniques.

Type: Attribute | Any Item

Effect: Once per battle per instance of this attribute you may, as a free action, increase the turn duration of one [Climate] you control by 1. This increase may break ninjutsu duration caps. [Climate] must be declared when the attribute is taken.

Cost: 3x; where x is the cost of 1 turn of [Climate]

I feel [Desired Climate] is a little too...overwordy? Which is rich from me I know but stick with me here mate. If you use [Climate] or [Desired Climate] they both get replaced with whatever the climate is, so why not just make it simpler? Above wording fixes KC's concern that it kinda applies to everything, fixes my concern that it's written in a way that doesn't suit the type of effect.

[Miso]

Makes sense, I know exactly what you mean. I do like how you worded it however. I was stuck between two minds when I made it wordy lol.

 

This should be ready for stamps now.

[Cellar Door]

Yep. Good to go.

[Princess]

Hard for me to disagree with my own wording. Approved.

[almondsAndRain]

This has been here for a while. Approved.