Santetsu 7.0

[Kouta]

Santetsu: Legacy of the Third Kazekage

The Iron Sand Returns

History: The Iron Sand was once famed as the “Most deadly weapon in Sunagakure” and it deserved that name more than most fabled superpowers. The Iron Sand always has been a rare and unique creation. Its surfacings have been rare, usually reserved for only extremely powerful or dedicated ninja, and those who have occasionally been blessed with extremely high intellect. These surfacings have taught us much about the power and scope of the fabled power of Santetsu.

”You want to know about my chakra? Okay then. Listen closely. You see, my chakra is unique. Well, not really. My blood is unique, and that alters my chakra. The ability propagates throughout about 60% of the ninja in Sunagakure, but because it is so complex to understand, less than .01% of any ninja in Suna ever even unlock the ability. Did you know we’re all distantly related? Yea, it’s wicked! Well, inside my chakra are these tiny molecules. These itty bitty black things I call “Magnitites.” I don’t know how my body generated them, but they act like little parasites. They are born out of my blood cells, and secrete out of my skin similarly to sweat. Then they can easily be carried off to wherever when I unleash my chakra. If I turn them on, I can aim them at something, and they’ll latch onto it. Now, usually that’s not incredibly helpful. On a table or a fork or something, it just increases its magnetic field strength. But Sand? Oh yea. The only element I’ve found that’s capable of utilizing my gift. Fire, Water, Wind, Sound, Lightning? Not physical. Nothing to attach to. Earth? Molecules are too densely packed. But Sand? Fluid, heavy, powerful. Perfect!”

The nature of Santetsu is that of a parasite. The magnetites not only cling to the sand, allowing more direct and precise control of the element, but they make the sand heavier. The magnetites will multiply once they have a qualifying target, covering the entirety of the sand in the magnetic, metallic coating. Hits will strike harder and beat down an enemy’s defenses as the sand involved becomes as hard as, well, Iron.

”Yea. There aren’t many bodies that can handle being pummeled by waves of iron repeatedly. The body wears out. But it’s more than that. Any ball of steal can do that. Again, it’s all about the magnitites. When a chakra construct like the Iron Sand hits the enemy, the magnitites that are lost latch onto the enemy. Well hey, that’s like a giant beacon. The chakra attracts more chakra, so the next time we attack, we hit the exact same spot. More magnitites pile onto the enemy, and the cycle repeats. Before long, the enemy’s own body is helping me hurt it. And the particles are molecular. Nobody can see them, let alone try to get rid of them. It’s a deadly little secret.”

Restrictions: Must be ORIGINALLY from Sunagakure no Sato.

Rank 1: Elementary Control

Description: The user has learned to use their magnetic chakra, but has to spend lots of concentration in order to spread the magnitites to an enemy body. This concentration causes their attacks to be about propagating the magnetic quality of the sand, instead of dealing sheer force.

Effect: Iron Sand Jutsu may forfeit 100% of their HP Damage in order to damage the Defense stat instead. Damage against Defense in this way will receive 1/2 offensive modifiers from the caster and 1/2 defensive modifiers from the defendant, as well as all relevant bonuses from skills and equipment on both sides. This must be declared as the jutsu is used. Defense lost in this way returns at the end of the opponent's 3rd turn after being hit.

Restrictions: Requires “Combinatorial Element: Iron Sand.” Must be Level 25.

Cost: -1

Rank 2: Elementary Mastery

Description: The user has obtained a mastery over their use of the magnetic chakra. They no longer have to focus nearly as hard to ensure that the magnitites transfer, which allows them plenty of leeway to still drive hits home while making other hits strike all the harder.

Effect: Iron Sand Jutsu may forfeit either 100% OR 50% of their HP Damage and use it to damage the Defense Stats instead. Damage aimed at Defense in this way receives 1/2 offensive modifiers from the caster and 1/2 defensive modifiers from the defendant, as well as all relevant bonuses from skills and equipment on both sides. If the damage is split between HP and Defense, the Jutsu is modified as if it were a multi-hit jutsu with two hits, although it is still dodged as a single hit. This must be declared as the jutsu is used. Any defense lost in this way returns at the end of the 3rd turn after being hit.

Restrictions: Requires “Elementary Control.” Must be Level 45.

Cost: -1

Edited September 11, 2011 by Kouta

[Rhapsody]

Rank 0 is basically just a Combinatorial skill so I think it should be posted as one.

Damage against Defense needs a turn duration. 1 turn? 10 turns? The battle?

[cntrstrk14]

Iron Sand will need to be created as a separate element in the same format as the other combinatorial. You can keep it clan specific, but it needs to fit that order. Rank 0 can give you access to it without the requirements for x skill points then.

FYI, Ninjutsu never modifies stats, so as you have control worded right now it will do it "normally" which means no modifiers.

Rank 1&2: This "The caster of the jutsu MUST declare which stat they are attacking at the time the jutsu is launched." can be changed to "This must be declared as the jutsu is used."

[Kouta]

But the combinatorial element can only exist as part of this bloodline. So its with the bloodline. Without the magnitites in the blood mixing with chakra, you couldn't create the metallic structure of the Iron Sand. So its not a "Anybody can his have this!" type of deal.

Duration of Defense I plan as "Remainder of Battle." RECOVERY OF DEFENSE, I have three ideas, I'll allow you to pick your favorite.

1) Damage to defense regenerates 10% of the damage each time the user regenerates chakra. This regeneration does not occur if the defense was damaged on the same turn that chakra is regenerated.

2) Damage to defense can be healed with medical techniques/items. Any ninja who has taken damage to their defense may forfeit the HP Restoration of Medical Ninjutsu in order to heal that much Defense.

3) The afflicted opponent may spend one main phase "focusing on removing the magnitites" in order to heal up to 75% of their total defense. (If they have less than 75% damage to their Defense, it heals it back to full. You cannot exceed your original defense.)

EDITING FOR CNTR: Example for me? Cuz I'm not sure I understand whatcha mean.

What I meant was that the damage will be modified as if it were attacking HP, using the proper offensive stat and the defense stat will try to protect itself. I'll clarify that.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Kouta

[cntrstrk14]

I'm saying the same as rhapsody on the iron sand. Make it a combinatorial skill in the same format as the main site. You can make it specific to the bloodline, but it should be in that form. This means a unique ability for it as well.

The damage to defense thing with modifiers is going to be hard. Taijutsu, Ninjutsu and Genjutsu each have specific aims that they are good at, and the stat damage modifiers is heavily in Genjutsu territory. I am hesitant to apply damage modifiers to the defense stat at the same rate. Maybe a reduced rate like -1 reduced for every 10 Ninjutsu and +1 reduced for every 10 Defense? Something like that could maybe work since its a bloodline.

[Eechi-go]

I'm thinking either way, if you're throwing out the potential to subtract anywhere between 1 point in defense, to over 1,000, you need to be paying an upkeep somehow, some way.

[cntrstrk14]

Upkeep or flat turn duration.

[Kouta]

Ah. Gotcha on the Combinatorial thing. That'll appear shortly, and then this'll change to reflect it.

As far as damaging Defense, I'm loathe to attach an upkeep just because its an after-effect. The ninja doesn't actively keep up the action. It just happens. Like a corrosive acid, if you need a reference. (If there are some poison rules relevant to this situation, we may talk that route).

Turn duration is an option I'm willing to do should the above poison route lead to no results. In fact, a turn duration and the idea I gave about regenerating back the Defense as their body regenerates Chakra is nigh on the same thing. Since it is foreign chakra that is causing the disturbance, generating fresh chakra would slowly remove it.

If you insist on a turn duration, however, most poisons seem to pick 4. So I'd go with that.

On the topic of modifiers: I'll have to insist they be there in SOME way, since that's the purpose of the bloodline. Without modifiers I could just make the Combinatorial Skill and make jutsu that hit Defense. I'm okay to reduced modifiers. I was thinking that I could do 1/2 normal modifiers on both sides (So 20 would yield +2.5, which is only .5 away from your suggestion.) when targeting defense.

However, in the case of attacking both HP AND Defense (Rank 2) only the part dealing with defense would have half modifiers.

[Warr]

As an equalizer; I think this should be multiple ranks with the skill if you want to be able to attack Defense with a modifier. Each rank should have a chakra upkeep cost [it's standard with almost all bloodlines like that] or should increase the cost of iron sand techniques by a percentage higher than what is actually listed as it's cost.

[Kouta]

@Warr: Prove it. Show me a clan/bloodline with a similar ability that has an upkeep involved. This is not a sustained mode, this is not a constant change to every technique I have (fire jutsu still are just regular jutsu, so are void jutsu, etc. ONLY a specific subset of jutsu gain this ability), and as was previously mentioned, this is the SINGLE ability of the bloodline. I see no point in a "Bloodline-based Upkeep" of any kind.

And technically, it IS multiple ranks. You can't assault defense until (technically) the second rank, which occurs at level 25. I just numbered them 0, 1, 2 instead of 1, 2, 3 for the prettiness of it.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Kouta

[Eechi-go]

^Typically, bloodlines aren't supposed to affect the opponents at all, so there aren't many examples we can give, mostly because they're generally not accepted as easily, if at all.

What you have here is an ability that can completely shut down an opponent's defenses, and in some cases, an entire build, for no additional cost. There -has- to be an upkeep of some kind on this thing. If only because it can be justified as the magnetites wearing off when the user's chakra is no longer influencing them.

[Kouta]

Well the bloodline isn't affecting the opponent. It's altering a type of technique to have a different effect. So I've still stayed tried and true to your rule. This bloodline is classified in the same realm as bloodline along the lines of "Clan Jutsu deal +50 damage!" or "Clan Jutsu get the Bonuses of All Subtle Elements involved in their creation!" Admittedly, its a rather unique case, but still falls into that category. So again I say, if you claim its a standard thing, prove it.

However, I will compromise with you. No Upkeep, increase the cost of any technique that attacks Defense. The previous version of Santetsu said that Iron Sand that attacked Defense cost 1.5x their normal cost. Because while I can pump extra chakra into an attack before I launch it...there's no way I can continue to feed chakra into a molecule thats stuck on my opponent's body.

And then I also have to throw in a comment on the "Potentially Break Down a Build" line. Isn't that the goal of EVERY FIGHTING STYLE? To be able to adapt and fight no matter who shows up in front of them? The fact of the matter isn't that it can force you to rethink your strategy. That's a weak argument and means nothing to me, because if you can only win using one method of victory, and have taken no steps to defend that method, you have built a horrible glass tank and deserve to lose. The damage only occurs if you get hit. So block the jutsu. Dodge it. Make a skill that negates special effects. I don't care, but it can be done.

The same thing can be said of a jutsu that merely pummels a lot of damage at you. Or jutsu that temporarily seal ninjutsu and genjutsu (because remember this is now going to be a cementented 4 turn duration, also temporary). Or effects that make you blind so you can't hit anything. You may ask, "Well can't that end the battle right then and there? That's not very fun!" Of course it fucking can! That's the design! If you want people to get creative and find new ways to play the game, then allow them to exist. I'm more than willing to work with you guys but not if you immediately put ten restrictions and subclauses on it so that I can only use it during the first three hours of every wednesday. And you wonder why all my shit turns out with giant blocks of text.

Edited September 2, 2011 by Kouta

[cntrstrk14]

This does not need an upkeep, there is nothing here worthy of an upkeep cost. Bloodlines that are "activated" have upkeep costs because they just give bonuses. This bloodline gives additional options to the player, but does not add stats or give additional abilities, hence it does not need an upkeep cost.

However, one thing I saw you mention does break a golden rule. In fact, it may be THE golden rule that I have been pushing since 5.0. You can only get ONE full modifier per turn. That means you will not be able to deal full HP modifiers and then also get modifiers onto defense bonuses. On the same coin though, the enemy only can apply one full defense modifier to defend in the same turn, so if you do 50% of your ninjutsu towards defense and 50% towards the damage of the technique, they apply the same ratio of their defense in each area.

The argument about breaking down a build isn't really valid when it is specifically just lowering one stat. Its not like he is saying "remove all defensive skills or abilities from a player". If your character build relies on one stat, that is a risk you take with your build.

[Eechi-go]

MY issue is that it costs you absolutely nothing to destroy a build in battle. Not the fact that it can destroy a build. There's a difference. Especially when you can end up dealing damage and tearing down defense in the same action.

It's not a matter of overcoming something so much as it is doing it without any effort.

[Kouta]

Cntr: Please tell me where I say that, because that was NOT the intended effect (multiple modifiers). When you attack defense in rank one, you DONT hit any HP, and so you don't get a 2nd mod there.

Then I specifically stated that if you attack defense AND HP, its treated as if it were a multi hit jutsu (which specifies your one modifier is split over all hits involved). The only thing it DOESNT follow from multi-hit jutsu is that you dodge these whole jutsu at one time, not dodging multiple times.

Eechi: I stated I was willing to increase the cost of the jutsu so that this does "Cost something." I will do 1.5x the cost of the Iron Sand Jutsu when this ability is used in battle if that makes you feel safer. But it does cost something anyways. (Warning: Strategic Information on the function of this bloodline ahead. It may bore you.)

The fact that my HP damage isn't dealt that turn (or is halved) means my opponent has a better chance of killing me before I kill him. Strategically I give up the advantage in battle on the RISK that I'll be able to lower his defense enough AND hit him with damage inside those four turns enough to make it all worth it (thus my dislike of the turn duration, and preferring alternative defense recovery mechanisms). That means I have to hit a MINIMUM of Two Times in four turns. How common is that, especially at higher levels? Think not only of Dodging and Shields, but also the effect Stunned. Or Bound Paired Arms. Oh look. Four distinct turns of stalling right there until your defense returns. Not to mention, that if you have high defense, the first hit with Iron Sand will barely lower your defense at all. Which means I need TWO Iron Sand hits to do significant statistical damage. So there. Three Hits out of Five Turns. Thats what it takes for this to useful.

EDIT: Made all changes currently requested.

Edited September 5, 2011 by Kouta

[cntrstrk14]

I either misread or its changed since the last time I looked at it.

Last concerns...

1.) Is this the entire bloodline?

2.) 4 turns seems like a bit to long, would you be oppose to lowering it to 3 turns?

[Kouta]

Well Cntr, I did make all the changes talked about since you last looked at it, so I'd say "It's changed since I last looked at it."

1. Yes. This is the whole bloodline. All it does is give access to Iron Sand as an element, and allow the user to attack defense, if they so choose. Everything else you'll encounter will be mastery skills, some made by me, some probably made by other people who want the Iron Sand.

2. I suppose 3 turns could work. I'll have that edited in a jiffy.

Also, I've changed the 0th rank to a -0 skill, and just say that they are allowed to pay for the combinatorial element, which has its own cost. The 0th rank doesn't add anything special.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Kouta

[cntrstrk14]

You should take out information about Iron Sand from the "0" rank skill then as well. To be clear then, Iron Sand could be taken by people not in this bloodline if they work their way up normally or will it be restricted to this clan?

And my comment about it changing was a response to your "Please tell me where I say that" saying that I couldn't, because its not there, lol. You sounded snippy there.

[Kouta]

Oh. You guys have gotten out of the loop of how I talk. Everyone says I sound way snippier. That specific line was meant to sound more like "I don't think I said that, so please tell me where it sounds that way so I can fix it." <---- See? What I typed was way shorter.

And no. The Iron Sand element specifically references this bloodline. It has a "Bloodline: Santetsu" tag on it.

[cntrstrk14]

At this point then... What is the point in having the Rank 0? Can't you just eliminate it?

[Kouta]

Technically, yes. Consider it stricken.

[cntrstrk14]

APPROVED

[Azure]

Approved.

[Hardcore Skittlez]

Has been remade as Jiton, moving to dead.